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Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=12435
Page 18 of 18

Author:  skydyr [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

emeraldemon wrote:
white
I am afraid if we tennuki black can cut and the fight will be bad for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 8 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But we could play a move like this to protect the cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 5 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My thoughts were to strengthen the center group in line with your second diagram.

Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

I see that Uberdude has beat me to the punch. I second his suggestion to extend.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 4 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bruce Wilcox's idea that having only 4 dame is tactically problematic is a good guide here. After :w4: White has 6 dame. :) In addition :w4: threatens :w6:, which in turn threatens the Black group.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

Author:  emeraldemon [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@white
Sorry, it's been 10 days. I'm making a move.

Author:  Celebrir [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Observers:
What the heck are they talking about? :scratch:

It has been about a week. And even an SDK who spends five minutes analyzing the position should be able to see that white must extend.

Are they debating Trump vs Sanders? Maybe who is going to win the Super Bowl?

Are they even close to making a move?

@Joaz:
Curious to hear your opinion about this move ;-)

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

@Celebrir and other Observers:
Celebrir wrote:
@Joaz:
Curious to hear your opinion about this move ;-)


There is death in the hane.

Kirby said that he wanted to see us have a 20 point lead when he gets back. This might do it.
IOW, I'm not sure that I would take white for a 20+7 point komi.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

@BLACK:
The hane at M16 is sente. I think that we should play it.
The position below is the best that white can get if they ignore it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 If 2 tenukis
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . 6 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X 4 3 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 O 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  andreyl [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

I am quitting this rengo guys,you are welcome to replace me :)
it was fun

Author:  TegaiS [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

@BLACK:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 It is not sente because we have to answer :w2:. But I think we should play it anyway.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Uberdude [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

@obs
It seems this hane is so painful it made andreyl resign :) Can't say I blame him, white's shapes are pretty ugly. TegaiS said this hane is not sente because black has to answer white's hane, but that's not strictly true, black could do something like this. The 1-2 exchange is already good for black, because even after the atari at 4 (atari of 4 as cut at 5 doesn't seem to work) white would need to come back to defend the cut, and this does not threaten to kill the black group at the top (whereas after the extend at 1 turn at 5 would) so black could tenuki again to a or b or whatever.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O O X X X X 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O X O O O 1 4 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X O O . . 2 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X X X X . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 3 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  skydyr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

So, anyone feel like joining the team? Lowercase usernames preferred but not strictly necessary.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

Should we allow a takeback?

I don't know what is going on with the other team, but the long delay before moving coupled with the withdrawl of one player soon after the move suggests to me that white is having some kind of serious dispute. The result, IMHO, was a less than ideal move.

So, @observers, black players and white players: should we do a takeback?
In particular, @andreyl: would you rejoin if we did?

Author:  emeraldemon [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

We can keep going or we can end it here, I'm fine either way.

Author:  skydyr [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

I got the sense (possibly incorrect) that andreyl may have had scheduling issues or trouble finding time for the game.

I'm fine continuing or not.

@white
Assuming we continue, kosumi as mentioned?


Edit:
Thinking about it a bit more, most people who would be interested in participating have most likely read the comments on both sides already, so perhaps it would be better to call it quits and move on.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

skydyr wrote:
...most people who would be interested in participating have most likely read the comments on both sides already...

It is a small advantage, but I wouldn't mind. I suspect that my teammates would not mind either.

Author:  skydyr [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game

So it's been a week since we called for a volunteer. I'm all for throwing in the towel at this point if no one gets back to us soon.

Edit:
Yeah, I'm done and going to look it over.

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