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 Post subject: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #1 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:36 am 
Lives in gote
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Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Enow is Middle English for enough and I think this is going to be the theme of this post. We've waited enough so I'm just going to start this thread.

Black:
percival (7k)
Loons (DDK) (though probably slightly stronger ;) )

White:
Mnemonic (7k)
mw42 (1k-ish)

Rules:
Closed comments (including your team members') and no joseki dictionary or databases (otherwise there'd be no fun :twisted: )
Good game everyone :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"


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Post #2 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:29 am 
Judan
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Fun! :batman:

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #3 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 5:31 am 
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cool thanks a lot i was reluctant to start without genral approval

now a BIG warning: my fist ever rengo game, i apologize in advance to my poor partner.

Who starts ? what order ? is there a tradition that weaker goes frist or second in this kind of game ?

I thought that it might be fun to allow th stronger playyer to view the thoughts of the weaker one so he can pull his hair in advance (or try to steer thigns away fro trouble), but no communication from strong to weak
what do you think ?

on and 6.5 komi right ?

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #4 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 8:27 am 
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Quote:
cool thanks a lot i was reluctant to start without genral approval

Yes, and I was just sitting on my hands and waiting for someone else to start this. :) Thanks, Mnemonic.

Quote:
Who starts ? what order ? is there a tradition that weaker goes frist or second in this kind of game ?

Well, I think the order is as Mnemonic has listed the names, viz. it is your turn, perceval.

Quote:
I thought that it might be fun to allow th stronger playyer to view the thoughts of the weaker one so he can pull his hair in advance (or try to steer thigns away fro trouble), but no communication from strong to weak
what do you think ?

In general there is no communication between team members. Part of the game is to try to understand in what direction your partner wants to play.

Quote:
on and 6.5 komi right ?

Aye.

tldr; Your turn!


Last edited by mw42 on Tue May 17, 2011 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #5 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:27 am 
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Rank: 7K KGS
KGS: tictac
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You are curious aren't you ?


good luck gg
Your turn Mnemonic

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #6 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:26 pm 
Gosei
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Have fun everyone.
I am pretty sure I have already played the worst rengo ever, so there is no way I can be disappointed by this one. Knock wood. While I'm not going to play forcing moves to affect who makes what move, I am going to try and stay conscious of what sort of moves perceval is going to have to make.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #7 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:52 pm 
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KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee wrote:
Fun! :batman:

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #8 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:05 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

We don't want to just mark the last move's numbers?
Sigh.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 I'm not even very sure where to play here, I hope there is a better move for four.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Last edited by Loons on Tue May 17, 2011 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #9 Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 pm 
Judan
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perceval,
perceval wrote:
You are curious aren't you ?
:) Often the notes for the opening moves are... entertaining. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #10 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:11 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm4 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm, tengen as white. I don't really like it. I suppose taking the corner is biggest. I suppose playing 4-4 is best. It will be interesting to see the direction Mnemonic decides to take this game in on his next move.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #11 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:31 am 
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[go]$$Bcm5 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


EDIT: unhidden
I guess he will approach next, wonder how it will turn out.
i don't know if playing the hoshi would have been more normal

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Last edited by perceval on Tue May 24, 2011 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #12 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:46 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #13 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 5:46 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

. :w6: is expected, so perceval must feel there is a clear move for black. I wonder what it was. I don't really want to pincer - why would we want to fight in white's triangle? F4 is my alternate choice, but I felt like this.

PS: I assume perceval wanted me to one space low pincer, but I think the direction is bad for us and white unbreakably has the ladder. I imagine everyone else is also having flashbacks of Kajiwara's the direction of play.

PPS: He might have wanted me to play the attach underneath but- then white's hoshi is happy and ours aren't.

PPPS: If white attaches inside, I would like a distant pincer. I wonder if perce knows that joseki :P.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #14 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems natural. It attempts to cut the corner off and surround it and build some thickness. However, this could also lead to an early fight.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #15 Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:51 pm 
Gosei
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Looking now doesn't really give me any information about my next turn at all! I am hoping perceval spots one joseki obviously works with K4.

PS: I have a great-uncle named Perceval. true story.

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Post #16 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:50 am 
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[go]$$Bcm9 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i wonder if loons hates me a little already ...

Edit: unhidden
i so did not picture things going that way. i know very little of those joseki
i think that a,b and tenuki are feasible .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm7 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i am tempted to tenuki and just play a big point because i think we can still live in the corner (actually i can't read that i think i remember but i could easily mistake it for a similar position )but i don't know the joseki and i feel If i make a wrong choice a local joseki will probably be a smaller mistake than an inappropriate tenuki
now between a or b no idea of direction of play at all ...mmm i'll try to get closer to our hoshi stone i guess ...
on the other hand we will be pressed on the bottom while W build a wall facing his hoshi. There will still be space to play on the left so that might be ok.
if i play b i am not sure of the consequence of the cut...
mmm yes i am not confortable with b ie:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i don't know how things would proceed from here but a ladder on :wc: in the future wont't work and its too messy for me.. ill stay clear of it


In the end i have not a single shred of idea about direction, so i'll play a because it seems less likely to lead to a gross tactical blunder (less likely but likely anyway), and the hoshi stone might help
i already feel the pressure of rengo after 9 moves :-?[/hide]
Edit: fixed move number from 7 to 9 (insert obvious geek reference)

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Last edited by perceval on Tue May 24, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #17 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 2:01 am 
Judan
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Loons,
Loons wrote:
I am hoping perceval spots one joseki obviously works with K4.
Which one? :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #18 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 3:31 am 
Gosei
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There was a glitch in the matrix! And don't be negative, perceval.
This was what I was thinking of. 5-4s are wily beasts though, we'll have to be careful.

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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #19 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:41 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 324
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Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Don't worry percival. My partner hates me more :mrgreen:
Sorry, my comments have been a bit scarce, but I don't have a lot of time at the moment and I though a move without comment is better than slowing down the game.
Anyway, they can’t crosscut so I'm playing this move. I was considering the 33 point, but then they could link up with their K4 stone.

Edit: Fixed numbering

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Last edited by Mnemonic on Thu May 19, 2011 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 2v2 Malkovich Rengo #2
Post #20 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:40 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 No prisoners so far
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O 2 . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The hane is good if this ladder works. I would have preferred to press at :w2: .

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