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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #101 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:52 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm68 Move 68 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . W X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i whis our weakest link plays absolute sente to kill opponents strongest link.
then we will win easily for sure...:)

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #102 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:07 am 
Gosei
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Something I hadn't noticed before:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Black group can now be attacked
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . a . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black's Right side group now has some vulnerability, and can be pressed. Maybe this cut is not the best way, but there's some aji there.
I still want white to move first in the a area, I think whoever moves there first could decide the game.
This is because I think white is slightly ahead now that the group is alive. I'll make a post later with my estimate of the game. I'd appreciate it if some observers also do the same, so I have a basis for comparison when the game finishes.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #103 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:46 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Move 69 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . 1 . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It really feels like we have a lot of weaknesses. I don't really like our position. I almost played at a below because I wasn't sure we could live if the shown sequence occurred, but after some reading I'm 98% sure we can. I'd like to harass the white group some more but it would start to look like an attempt to kill and I think that would backfire as we have too many weaknesses. I was going to play at :b69: below but I decided that the move I played helps with our weakness in the corner, takes some points on the top, prevents white from getting that point, and it keeps the possibility open of trying for a kill later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Move 69 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . 3 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I kinda think black must have made mistakes to get in this position. I wonder if they were mine...?

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #104 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:07 pm 
Tengen
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this game is crazy!!!
i think we are ahead but barely.
and from what i saw sofar...no one knows what will happen next 3 moves later.
i will just play my thing and not worry about winning.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #105 Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:26 pm 
Gosei
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Magicwand is probably saying something about how easy it will be to get into our corner now or how our side group should die. :( Hope I didn't miss something obvious...

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #106 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:43 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Move 70 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some fun stuff:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Move 70 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X 3 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . 2 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 7 6 . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #107 Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:51 pm 
Site Admin
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Move 71 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . 1 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that they are aiming for this: Black 6 at 1.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X 2 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X 3 5 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I played my move to prevent that.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #108 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:40 pm 
Gosei
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Haven't forgotten the game, will post move tomorrow.

I don't think I can kill the right side black group, although there seem to be some tesujis one could use. I also don't think attacking it without killing at least part of it would help, so I'm thinking of tenuki-ing.

I really want to play around the G9 area before black, but black still seems stronger there, and that would help him in the fight to come.

I was surprised by daniel_the_smith's move, but I think I see where it comes from: it grabs territory and removes aji. I think it leaves black ahead on territory, and, since they have that strong black group in the middle, probably in influence too.

I need to count this at least a little more thoroughly before moving. :-?

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #109 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:01 pm 
Tengen
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way Phelan plays is like a box of chacolate. you never know what you gonna get.
last 2 times he spend time prepareing move he came up with moves that is out of question.
i can not wait to see what he will play.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #110 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:47 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Move 72 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . 1 . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I keep postponing it until I "have enough time", but I really need to count this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Counting
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . i h g f e d c b a |
$$ | . . . C . . . . . . i h g f e d c b a |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . n m m l l k k j j |
$$ | a a h O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | b b h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | c c i O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | d d i . . . . . . . X O o o p O X X O |
$$ | e e j . . . . . . O X X O O p O O X . |
$$ | f f . O . c d . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | g g . , . . e . . X x x X . . O X u u |
$$ | . . O . X . b f . . y y X . O . X v v |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . w w |
$$ | . . . a g . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | k k j . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . n |
$$ | l l n . . . . . . . . . . t s r q p o |
$$ | m m n . . . . . . . . . . t s r q p o |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ {LN A17 D17}
$$ {LN D17 D11}
$$ {LN D11 C11}
$$ {LN C11 C9}
$$ {LN C9 A9}
$$ {LN A4 D4}
$$ {LN D4 D1}
$$ {LN M14 Q14}
$$ {LN Q14 Q10}
$$ {LN Q10 O10}
$$ {LN O10 O12}
$$ {LN O12 M12}
$$ {LN M12 M14}
$$ {LN K16 T16}
$$ {LN K16 K19}
$$ {LN T4 S4}
$$ {LN S4 S3}
$$ {LN S3 P3}
$$ {LN P3 P4}
$$ {LN P4 N4}
$$ {LN N4 N1}
$$ {LN P3 P4}
$$ {LN T11 R11}
$$ {LN R11 R7}
$$ {LN R7 T7}
$$ {LN N12 L12}
$$ {LN P3 P4}
$$ {LN L12 L11}
$$ {LN L11 K11}
$$ {LN K11 K8}
$$ {LN K8 N8}
$$ {LN N8 N12}[/go]


Argh, this diagram took much longer to make than to count it myself...Any better way to do this than by hand? :mad:

Ok, for black's top right corner I count 14.5 pairs ("Always count in twos").
Black's bottom right: 7.5 pairs (a captured stone counts for two)
Black's right group: 3 pairs
Black's middle group: 3 pairs
That makes 28 pairs for black.

White's left side: 9.5 pairs
White's bottom left corner: 4.5 pairs
White's left group: 3 pairs
Total of 17 pairs for White

This means that the difference is 28-17=11 pairs =22 -6.5 (for komi) = 15.5 points in territory

I was planning on counting possible territory, but the above exhausted me. :sad:
White has more possibilities than black in the lower left, and black has more possibilities than white in the middle left.

What matters is that since we are behind on territory, we need more to compensate the difference.
The circle (:ec:) above marks a mostly territorial move that I don't think would get enough territory, even though it might be sente against the black stone.

So I'm going to tenuki and play in the possible territory area I've mentioned earlier that I wanted to play, around 'a'.


Hmm, on second thought, since the circled move is sente and seems to gain the same as black's response to it, I'm going to play it to try and force Violence to play there, and see what magicwand plays next.

Or not. The middle would get too big...
Argh. So yeah, this is how I actually think. Please don't do all this "Wine in front of me"(TVTropes link) stuff that I do, lower ranked players.

I'm going with f above. It seems like it would be the best to attack the lone black stone, and can run both above and below. I think. I'm all thought out. :-?

I hope someone corrects this post, I think I'll learn a lot.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #111 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:00 am 
Tengen
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in my opinion what Phelan played is wrong.
black jump into the corner 3-3 and live in sente.
then black jump into upper left corner and live.

can white win? answer is NO!
if it was 5d level his move would be blamed as losing game move.

i am pretty sure Violence will take the corner in sente.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #112 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:51 am 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Move 73 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered adding a move in the lower right, or invading one of these corners. I feel that this corner is bigger, and that white really wasted a move by playing so close to thickness. I don't feel like cutting off one stone like he did is very profitable. Taking this corner territory just feels like the only move in this situation.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #113 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:00 am 
Gosei
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I think the situation looks very bad for White, and that an overplay card is called for:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Move 73 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There is no way this should work, but this is a 3v3 rengo where mistakes can easily happen from what I've seen. White isn't even that strong on the outside, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Regardless, it's hard to deny that at least it will make the game pretty entertaining, with such an all-or-nothing move.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #114 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:15 am 
Gosei
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Ouch! :oops: I feel silly for not playing something more territorial, now

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #115 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:08 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm74 Move 74 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

my object is to win.
since it will be impossible to predict 3 moves ahead... why not throw some variations on this corner.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #116 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:01 am 
Gosei
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Interesting, before magicwand played it, I never considered that this move might help kill the top group, reduce the white corner, or even live there. I'm still wondering if it ends in sente, so we can reply on the lower left.
I'm glad I left that aji in peace, though.

As for the lower left side, I'm wondering what side to take, and what lines of the joseki are better for us.
I'm thinking of blocking on the top side, but I'm not sure if black can't just run out in that case, instead of being chased in.
Blocking on the other side might be more useful for that, but it seems easier to reduce.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #117 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:30 am 
Gosei
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Uh, ok, it's going to take me a bit to figure out the best response to that.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #118 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:52 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Move 75 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unfortunately I have to play here or our side could die. I guess this is the price of playing my last move instead of connecting underneath.

Here's the move I'd like to play and why I won't:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Move 75 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X 8 . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O 2 1 X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's something we have to watch out for:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Move 75 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . b 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . 2 X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . 3 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


black next at "b" causes us to die, but "a" works by a liberty or two. Hopefully if this happens we'll make the right choice...

EDIT: I had the letters reversed.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #119 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:03 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Move 76 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . 1 X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems like the only move

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #120 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:23 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Move 77 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Haha! maybe....

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . O . . O . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . O . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , X 3 X X O . O X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O 5 4 2 O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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