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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #21 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:25 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Move 38 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

oh my god it sucks... just because of one bad bad move table has turned :(
now i have to turn it around again..
why did i play that move???? because i dont wanna be the one who plays the obious move.
i will let my other weaker players play so i can at least play it correctly after that move.
does that make sense to anyone??? :)
simply i had to do something different.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #22 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:51 am 
Lives with ko
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topazg wrote:
EDIT: Hahaha, oops, it's my move :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Move 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I think White can only play this way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Move 34-39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 5 O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Where 40 is supposed to go I haven't the faintest idea - I wish magicwand hadn't double-haned, this is way too messy :P


What pot is topazg smoking? The only move here is to connect! :P

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #23 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:56 am 
Tengen
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Hmmmm, magicwand has tenuki'd. Did he realise the double hane was a blunder, or was my move bad? I still think his move was just overplay, but I really want to know what he's thinking. I'm going to take "a" below as soon as I get my move, because it's sente, it can't be aji-keshi as there's no real aji there any more, and if Black connects it's mean and nasty. I still think "b" is a good followup, and settles White completely. magicwand's latest move just looks like aji-keshi to me. Sure, there's not much going locally there at the moment, but if doesn't make sense unless White wants to push at "c", which really seems aji-keshi, as I want "d" later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Move 38 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X a O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Either he played a trick play that didn't work out because Black cuts, or he wanted me to connect. I'm having a look at the one variation that I didn't really analyse, but I can't find any way of liking it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Move 34 Variations (I)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Move 34 Variations (II)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 7 6 . . 2 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . 8 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd love everyone 4d+ to say whether a) the double hane was overplay, and b) whether my mistake was simply wrong irregardless of the quality of the double hane (i.e. now it has been played White must connect even though it's still not that great for White). I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move), but Bill? Araban? Shapenaji? This sort of position comes a lot with me, and I know I have a habit of sacrificing single stones when I shouldn't, so I'll be keen to read all the feedback when the position resolves :D

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #24 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:14 am 
Lives with ko
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topazg wrote:
I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move)...

I think it is okay for you to read my comment. It is on your move, but it's also just a one-liner snark.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #25 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:17 am 
Tengen
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unkx80 wrote:
topazg wrote:
I can see we have a comment from unkx80 (but not necessarily on my move)...

I think it is okay for you to read my comment. It is on your move, but it's also just a one-liner snark.


Haha, now I guess my move must have been sucky - White looked so ugly connecting though :D Sheesh, now my paranoia over my moves is going to go up even further :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #26 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:25 am 
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I feel that magicwand's push might be premature. If I am black, I am very tempted to play double atari here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Move 39 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #27 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:35 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Move 39 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Absolutely no thinking required for this move. We must block. I really don't know why magicwand played this, it's usually good to hold this in reserve until you have a tactic, and I don't see one here.

I was quite happy to see Violence's move, as we clearly got a good result there, which seems to vindicate my choice of cutting. I think white must have made some mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #28 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:44 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40 Move 40 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X 1 O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bleh, having established that my last move sucked, I want to get this in before Black does (or double-atari'd possibly, I don't know which is better). At least this way we get to settle without breaking the top right.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #29 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:57 am 
Gosei
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Damn, now I have to pick between going up with something like Q13 or P14 like magicwand seemed to want, or to go south with P4...
I doubt Jordus will do something as unexpected as not connecting.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #30 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:46 am 
Gosei
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Proper rengo strategy is probably to not give the weaker players obvious moves to answer, and do so for the stronger players. I'm pretty sure everyone can make a 9d move in black's current position. :)

I have to play reasonable moves because topazg can probably punish my mistakes, but there's a good chance that topazg could find a decent move with a continuation fuzzy enough that Jordus wouldn't be able to find it. Same could be said for magicwand and me.

You might think that as compensation for giving them that strategy, we have a 4 dan to punish everything Phelan does wrong--but Phelan could just make forcing moves, effectively leaving me to deal with magicwand and Jordus to handle topazg, which should give them a 4+ stone advantage.

I think they got the better end of the deal, but so far I don't think people are playing the metagame very strategically.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #31 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:58 am 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Move 41 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #32 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:43 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Wcm42 Move 42 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


See my previous comment in this thread. Between going up and coming down, I think I prefer playing down first. I feel there's still potential for white at the top, and don't want black to get to play there first and make territory while chasing this group.
So magicwand, if you wanted one of us to play up there, sorry. :?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm42 Alternatives I thought of
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . c . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

All of these seem to strenghten black and they don't do that much for life.

I've seen the below happen between lower ranked players, avoid it. While you may capture part of the group, you give a free net (and therefore eye) to white.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm42 mistake
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 3 . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




I'm expecting black to either play a or b. In both cases, I think that blacks replies will give white a chance to move towards/invade the lower right corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm42 followups?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . b a 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But then again, I'm getting used to being surprised in this game. :P


Edit: Oh, and Jordus, could you post something? At least a sentence saying why you need to play that move? Both of us know, but it could be interesting for the readers.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
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Last edited by Phelan on Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #33 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:05 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
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[go]$$Wcm40 Move 40 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X 4 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 2 6 1 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

first the move look good. but does it work?? my first reading NO.
second reading maybe. third i dont know.
finally i dont care lets run through then it will be more clear later.

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The greater the unknown"

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #34 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:14 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Move 41 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 1 O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's important to not make bad exchanges, and to just play calmly while reading out ways to rip your opponent apart. White is kinda thin around here, so it's a matter of waiting for the right moment to attack.

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #35 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:29 pm 
Gosei
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Agh, mislabeled. My move was 42, and Violence's is 43. Editing my post now.

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Good Go = Shape.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #36 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:59 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4842
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KGS: magicwand
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Move 44 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i can not tell if my move works. that means people who is following my move is not sure either. so we have a hope.

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #37 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:00 am 
Dies with sente
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thoughts about the move played:
The only thing I see that this move accomplishes is that is closes off the bottom for white. I tend to be a horrible reader so I think I'll wait to see what the stronger players see.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Move 44 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 7 2 X O 4 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

3 could be played at "a".


Some more thoughts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Move 44 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 2 X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 4 1 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems to be horrible for black. There is thickness next to their large enclosure which spells trouble.
Also, the four black stones have to take n5 which seems to be gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 Move 44 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 8 6 2 X O , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black tries to run, which I doubt they will, they have nowhere to run except some more white stones. :lol:


Edit: I just say to wait until the end of the game. Jus to be sure. :lol: ;-)


Last edited by Mosdefgo on Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #38 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:25 am 
Gosei
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KGS: lavalamp
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 Move 45 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 1 X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the only move that keeps white from capturing those two stones, so it is mandatory.

I have to say, I'm nervous that we're damaging our corner too much. But Violence's last move made it clear that he thinks we should save these two stones (I can't find a way to sacrifice them that looks any good for us).

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #39 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:22 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Move 46 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Move 46 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a O X 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O b X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White must connect here to be consistent I think. I want to play 46, a, and b, all at the same time really, but while "a" keeps the fight going, it's pretty meaningless if this happens:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Move 46-49 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X 2 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only way to prevent these cuts is to connect. Following thoughts?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 Move 46 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . c O X 1 . b . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . d . . O . . . O a X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All these moves seem to have value locally - we'll see when it's our move again. I'm sure I should have connected now even if I'd not been told already, I've created a pretty sucky position for White :(

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 Post subject: Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Post #40 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:10 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 Move 47 Prisoners White 0 Black 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 1 . X X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After much thought I decided on 47 because it is the best move for placing whites marked stones in jeopardy, while maintaining a nice cushion for blacks middle stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . Q X O O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . Q X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , B . X X O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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