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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #21 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:21 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
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Was liked: 105
I went through a taisha phase, so.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Oh, right, of course this stone is captured with L3. I think I can live with pointsin sente though.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #22 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:48 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
uhm...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


maybe he didnt read that?

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #23 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:51 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I guess I owe a better appraisal.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 3 2 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Can white be satisfied here? It seems to be what I'm stuck with.

Do I omit :w22: exchange ? Could I omit :w24: ? I think I can, but it would be uncomfortable.

Actually, I think I am satisfied if I omit :w22: because it will help reduce later: Also I don't need more eyes if black omits to capture the two stones. It's not like black will play at :w22: .

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #24 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:53 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #25 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:07 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #26 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:20 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #27 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:08 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I didn't think I would get sente out of this, but I'll take it. I don't think black's been territorially favourable. Adding this makes me feel more comfortable in the corner.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #28 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:15 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


should have sacrificed p3 i guess. anyway result is ok for b. ill tenuki now

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #29 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:33 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #30 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:48 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


maybe i shouldnt tenuki yet ^^

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #31 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:12 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X 6 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 3 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Well, now I'm losing. I guess I forgot what playing territorially was like : Or actually I somehow overlooked and underestimated black's 3-to-1 stone advantage bottom right. I think that thickness is game-winning.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #32 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:31 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Sente :) finally i can make the blow. this gonna be a tough fight but i didnt found a solution for w to react on this hane in a proper way so this fight should be good for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 4 5 . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 3 . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 2 1 O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #33 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:48 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Well, I'm not sure what response black is looking for. I'm glad to get this move. Still quite far behind though.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #34 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:12 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
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Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
So white probably wants black to play k5 to sacrifice on a small scale, but maybe black can resist with f5 or something. My first thought was to sacrifice like below. Question is what if black a next. If black just plays b white is happy enough with a big corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 6 2 3 O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . a X 4 5 . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #35 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:14 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


i have some doubts in this move, my feeling tells me just to enclose solidly with j5 to kill as much aji as possible. but even with that stone there are some endgame tesujis for w after attaching from the corner so ill rather force him to fight or give me some more profit.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #36 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:35 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Well, at least I should end up able to count how many points that thickness was worth.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #37 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:51 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Im satisfied with this. he should connect, im not sure yet how to continue, but i guess these are the options sorted as i prefer them at the moment:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . a . . 5 . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #38 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:40 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I really wanted to extend to K8, however that move lets black turn this into a fight.

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #39 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:37 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 75
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 2
Rank: Tygem 5d
KGS: xoxo88
Tygem: IxoxoI
IGS: xoxo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . 7 . . 5 . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I like this move, its one of these moves i rarely find in normal games since i dont have the time to check if it works or not. it completly destroys the left aji even the corner attachment is not sente any more. for white i think now instead connecting he should have played g4. its just too much territory for b after 35

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 Post subject: Re: #241 : xoxo88 vs Loons
Post #40 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:33 pm 
Gosei
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Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Fascinating. I'm going to call this an opportunity to get back in it, but I should be careful (and hold off making a move for a little while). Black has shape problems, and it's not clear to me that black's plan is good.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . c B 4 5 X . . . . . X X O O . |
$$ | . . . . b a 3 X 6 . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 1 d O , . . . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I die in a ladder after a-b-c-d, but all's not well with black (whereas white's stones don't look awkward).

I guess black's goal is to cover (36) in sente, which seems over-optimistic to me.

If I can happily take sente and shift attention to top with my centre influence, I think I have a game. I guess my possible results are
1. Let black through to the left. Take bottom left territory, declare that black's been playing on dame. (Though it seems difficult to do this efficiently).
2. Close off left using black's shape weaknesses (if it's possible). Move to top, call bottom left territory endgame.

Or some combination of the two.

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