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Post #21 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:22 pm 
Honinbo
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Uberdude wrote:
I wonder if players stronger than me similarly think my thoughts are strange.
Of course. That goes without saying. Most likely, you've had pro reviews of your games?

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Post #22 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:48 pm 
Judan

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EdLee wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
I wonder if players stronger than me similarly think my thoughts are strange.
Of course. That goes without saying. Most likely, you've had pro reviews of your games?


Yes, I actually originally typed "bonkers" instead of "strange" but toned it done in case it came across as harsh. It is a question of scale, of course I will think about some wrong things, but I have found I am often on the right track but with errors in judgement (I am aware of the focus of the game and trying to decide between this and that and making the wrong choice) or deep/sharp reading, whereas that sequence Annihilist showed was basically nonsensical. Of course if a pro who can trivially read a 40 moves sequence sees my 10 moves of reading that misses a 6d level tesuji he might call it nonsense. So 'strange' yes, but 'bonkers', I'd like to think not but maybe I am self-deluded.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #23 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:17 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So there are 2 big points at the moment.
They are both an aproach on a 3-4 stone. (on the top-left and bottom right)

I can enclose my corner on the top left but this would be too easy going on black.
I'll try to complicate by aproaching and try to return in sente to my enclosure.

Let's see if I succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #24 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:40 am 
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Not sure on my move yet, still thinking.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , f . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 0 a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . c . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I'm not moving yet, but sorting through my thoughts for clarity. Here are the moves I'm considering:

a: Standard joseki, nice, clean, common, gives me the corner. If he makes the extension, I end in sente, which is nice. I can use that to build influence on the top-left and fight him in the middle.
b: I like the idea of splitting him from the stones on the left, so b looks promising, but I'm not sure about the followups, so I'll need to look into that.
c: Same reasoning as b, but I know the followups better. I can let him take the corner while I gain influence towards the side and a (sort-of) wall, allowing me to attack the left while keeping his groups separated. The ogeima is often considered overplay, so a simple keima is ideal.
d/e: Pincer looks interesting, again I'm a little rusty on the followups, so not sure how well this would go. Wouldn't mind a bit of fighting. One space puts more pressure on white's stone, while two space lends a little more to the hoshi stone.
f: Tenuki. This is the move I want. I'm not sure how safe it is to tenuki for this move, though. Nonetheless, I hope to be able to play this way after I deal with the lower right.

I wonder about the keima, then pincer, allow him to take the corner entirely. It's midnight in Aus so I'll sleep on it for now.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:21 am 
Judan

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otenki wrote:
I can enclose my corner on the top left but this would be too easy going on black.
I'll try to complicate by aproaching and try to return in sente to my enclosure.

Let's see if I succeed.


Enclose top left is not too easy going, it is a necessary (IMO) defence as black's c13 stone makes an approach to top left (I prefer low) painful for white. B should just tenuki now or else pick a joseki which is hard for white to take sente from.

Black's lower right enclosure is just a big opening move, not related to strength of groups. Top left is urgent enclosure to prevent corner getting weak. If W encloses and B encloses that gives white a good excuse to play k3 which he wanted to anyway from the lower left corner, and now it would combine with removing the extension from black's lower right enclosure he just made. And if black answers enclosure with k3 area move then white approaches lower right.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #26 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 3:25 pm 
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Rank: KGS 10 kyu
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Two options:

a) Seal his approach stone in, cut it off from stronger groups then attack the left and topsides with the ensuing influence, or:
b) gain territory in sente, and then build influence in the top and fight him in the center.

That's how I read it out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 1 . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . a . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 3 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:b5: is probably questionable, because it leaves the weakness in the corner, but it accomplishes my goal of cutting white's groups off. It also loses sente, because of that weakness, and/or gives white some good aji in the corner. :b7: at a is thinkable too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . h . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 7 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks alright for me. I get about a 15 point corner and I get to attack the top. But the large white corner in the bottom left makes it look favourable to white at this stage. It also makes my hoshi look a little lonely, I don't want him to make an approach at h there.

Alternatively, tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 5 . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 3 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Assuming he stays in the lower right, this could work for me. Building influence towards the left in order to attack the left group seems vital, and so does pressuring the top right. I think :b1: acts kind of like a probe here, asking white how much he really wants territory in the corner.

This is all assuming he plays mostly according to joseki. But the way I see it, joseki moves are in this situation the best for white, at least in the problem areas.

Jumping out into the center with my group on the left side is something I should look to do at some point, but it's not urgent.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #27 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:50 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



As per usual my fuseki is totaly and utterly screwed.
I cannot reply on the top left so I'll leave my stone as aji.
The reason that I cannot reply is because I cannot let my stones on the left bottom become weaker.
If I would reply on the top left then for sure black can attack my stones on the left while building influence towards the center.
The group at the bottom left may look solid but it has so many problems in its shape.
So my conclusion is I want to create outside influence on the bottom right.
So when he attacks my group when this influence is there I'll just push him towards the influence in sente.

Let's hope I don't make anymore of these stupid mistakes I've been making lots of in this game allready :-)


Last edited by otenki on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #28 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:31 am 
Honinbo
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You guys should fix your diagrams to show the correct move numbers: :b11:, :w12:, :b13:, etc.


Not for players:
otenki wrote:
As per usual my fuseki is totaly and utterly screwed.
For beginners. Typical misunderstanding by many beginners.
At these levels, there is no big problem so far, by either side,
and so the game is completely NOT decided here. The big mistakes, if they happen,
will be later, usually in fights, in basic shapes, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #29 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:37 am 
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I fixed the numbering, sorry I forgot about it.

Cheers,
otenki

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Post #30 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:37 am 
Honinbo
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Otenki, thanks, but you're still off by 1. :)
otenki wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm10 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:44 am 
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Fixored :-)

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #32 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:55 pm 
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Rank: KGS 10 kyu
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At the moment the obvious dilemma is whether to ignore :w12:. It's rare to ignore this move, but it looks like all I can do is make a bit of territory in gote. His outside contact indicates he wants me to take the corner so he can gain influence, coordinate with the left stones to strengthen his moyo and make it more difficult for me to attack the left side.

So I'm going to probe him here. He has a lot of options. If he wants to keep the corner I can fight him for it. There are a lot of variations, but I expect him to attach on the right side, in which case I wedge, and then it gets a little complicated. I aim to make a bit of influence to combat the right side, but a lot of things could happen here. Alternatively, if he decides to eat my stone on the right, I can jump out and cause a bit of damage. It's also easy to abandon if things go sour, for whatever reason.

If I accept his corner on the right, this game is in danger of becoming a moyo game, which I really don't want. So a bit of fighting may be in order.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #33 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:52 am 
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No move yet, just some thoughts.

Wow this feels like a slow version of tygem, what an aggressive move. :-)

Ok so lets try to understand what he wants.

-> Maybe he wants to invade my corner. That would be bad since it gives me way too powerfull thickness which I want.
-> Maybe he wants to destroy my potential at the bottom by invading. That would be ok but I think although his stones might be too weak for this. I have to read deeper to make sure.
-> He wants to destroy my corner, which would be wishfull thinking.

I think most probably he wants to destroy my potential on the bottom.

I want to turn this group into a weak eyeless group if I can.
This way i can run all over the board while he still has to make sure that any thickness I build does not affect his group.

The only way to do this would be to take away his base.
Howhever it feels as if then he has enough forcing moves to make nice thickness on the outside and live easily on the side....

For example the kosumi left up of the corner stone would be something to consider.

Not sure, I will try to read deeper to make sure that it does not have lots of problems.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #34 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After reading a bit more i've decided to go ahead with my plan.
Lets see if I succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #35 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:27 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 18
Rank: KGS 10 kyu
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is what I wanted.

Some moves I want to look to making:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a: Shimari. I'd like to destroy some white aji there, it's looking kinda lonely. This is probably a gote move though.
b: I can try to settle this stone, but that's looking to endgame at this stage.
c: Put a little more pressure on his bottom group, while aiming to control the center. Not urgent.
d: I don't want his stone to jump out and split my stones.
e: I can eat this one and secure a large corner.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #36 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:55 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2495
Location: DC
Liked others: 157
Was liked: 443
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Annihilist wrote:
This is what I wanted.

Some moves I want to look to making:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . c . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a: Shimari. I'd like to destroy some white aji there, it's looking kinda lonely. This is probably a gote move though.
b: I can try to settle this stone, but that's looking to endgame at this stage.
c: Put a little more pressure on his bottom group, while aiming to control the center. Not urgent.
d: I don't want his stone to jump out and split my stones.
e: I can eat this one and secure a large corner.


I can't help but feeling that the last couple moves by black have allowed white to solidify territory in exchange for creating a weakish group that could easily become a liability or need to be sacrificed later.

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Post #37 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:00 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
skydyr wrote:
I can't help but feeling that the last couple moves by black have allowed white to solidify territory in exchange for creating a weakish group that could easily become a liability or need to be sacrificed later.
For Beginners. Yea... B is floating.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . B . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #38 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:10 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 415
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Liked others: 43
Was liked: 32
Rank: EGF 2k
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's chase this group. He cannot cap my top group, he cannot attach and wedging would be total failure.
What is he doing ?

Maybe he did not understand that white has connection OR can jump out.
Or maybe I just plainly missed something. Exciting.

I thought for a long time about F3 but I feel its not putting enough pressure on that group.
At the same time I'm making teritory which I don't care so much about right now. I'd rather have center stones/thickness.

I'd apreciate if whoever reads this thinks my original move was better to tell me :-)

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Post #39 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:11 am 
Honinbo
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Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
otenki,
otenki wrote:
I'd apreciate if whoever reads this thinks my original move was better to tell me :-)
That would not be fair because it could affect your judgement of the current and future situations.

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 Post subject: Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Post #40 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:25 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 18
Rank: KGS 10 kyu
KGS: Annihilist
IGS: Annihilist
DGS: Ubermensch
Kaya handle: Annihilist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11 Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 7 X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O 9 . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I read.

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