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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #81 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:05 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
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Rank: KGS 1-dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Planning 1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I'm thinking hard about this move but maybe this is the reason why it's wrong? : D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning 2
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . b 3 a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Does that work?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning 3
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So many cutting points... It also looks kind of vulgar/crude...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning 4
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This can't be good for White, can it?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning 5
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This seems to be a bit more complicated...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning 6
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 1 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Also possible but looks funny and White still has to spend several moves to live. There is some nasty cutting Aji though.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Planning Alternative 1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O b 2 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The reason I doubt :b23: is the right move is that White can just defend (is induced to defend actually) his weaker group and then my stone seems to be on dame. Of course I can still attack later on (maybe even exchange 'a' for 'b' right away) but for now I have no clue what to do with :b23:.

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 Post subject: Re:
Post #82 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:38 am 
Oza

Posts: 2494
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
EdLee wrote:
skydyr wrote:
Black also has a countercut at D in the diagram which could make things exciting, so white may not want to cut right away.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +--------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . .
$$ | . . X O O 4 5 . . .
$$ | . . X , X O 7 . . ,
$$ | . . X . X 1 . . . .
$$ | . . O . 3 2 X . . .
$$ | . . . O . O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Yes, W could give up the 2 corner stones if it's bigger to cut off the :b2: group.
So yes, the timing is important and depends on the global situation.


Agreed. My instinct is that locally it's a bit painful to give up those two stones, but it really depends on what's going on elsewhere to determine if white's attack on the new center group will be better or worse than keeping the two stones. In this case, with the black shimari at the top right, I'd be inclined to wait until white could build up more right side strength.

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #83 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:06 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
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Rank: KGS 1-dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Ah, why not?
These turn-based games always beguile me into delaying my move until I'm really, really sure. But I never am : D

This looks like fun though!

Know, what you can know, do, what can be done, and stand up again if you fail epically - something like that : )

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #84 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:40 am 
Tengen
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GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Sorry for the delay, been thinking about this one. I think if that corner is sealed in, there are some interesting life and death issues with funny placements. It's not a shape I know unfortunately, but I think sealing in is good anyway. Not too disappointed with Black's choice, as his stone is low, but there is some good development potential for him at the top. Depends how he wants to fight this now

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #85 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:10 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I'm still favouring this move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . B . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Or is it broken shape and I just wasted the marked stone?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 4 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Cutting is not that easy but there is a lot of bad Aji for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 6 7 . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 4 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 3 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 1 8 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Right now this does not work though, because the ladder is good for me and White has plenty of bad Aji himself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 :w40: at :b35:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 1 2 O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X 7 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O B O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The again a lot of Aji remaining...

'a' is Sente against the two marked stones ('b'-'c' captures) and also attacks the stones at the top... When it should come to that I either have to live there or win the Semeai against White's group.

I can of course just think about giving away the two stones to take the top right but that would be pretty soft, wouldn't it? =D


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O c a . b . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . B 4 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Back to the beginning.

It could be my weak understanding but I think the marked stone sill has Aji ('a' to 'c') and White's marked stone is also broken shape and looks off. Still, depending on whether or not I really have Aji at the top, White has potential to make territory there whereas I don't do much with my stones - for now. A little later they might come in handy to invade White's left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . X . . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

White could also play like this, I mean, I got surprised before : D

Aji, Aji, Aji.

I can cut but he can easily sacrifice. In the end I have to be sure that I will end up with a good attack and not further solidify White's Moyo.


Maybe I will find other candidate moves, so I'm not making my play right now : )

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Post #86 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:15 am 
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I wonder if :b23: is overplay, or misplaced ?

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #87 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:51 am 
Judan

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SoDesuNe wrote:

<snip>

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 :w40: at :b35:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 1 2 O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X 7 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X d a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O B O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

The again a lot of Aji remaining...

'a' is Sente against the two marked stones ('b'-'c' captures) and also attacks the stones at the top


Nope, quite a bad misread here. b-c captures the 2 stones in a net directly, without needing a. Even if black cuts to the left of b white can atari to the left and squeeze and ladder to prevent black breaking through to the corner. Black could play empty triangle at d instead of solid connect to take a liberty to prevent the net, but it's very ugly.

P.S. for 23 I prefer the joseki moves of f14, or maybe the fancy g13 "grappling hook" tesuji.

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #88 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:11 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 :w40: at :b35:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 1 2 O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X 7 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O B O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . b . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I think the previous comments did also point it out: There is no ladder ^^ White can net with 'b' and 'c' without 'a'. Pattern recognition needs maintenance.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 :w40: at :b35:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 1 2 O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Can I play :b41: and get a good trade or did I miss something else?

Turn-base is really troublesome : (

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #89 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:13 am 
Judan

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SoDesuNe wrote:

Can I play :b41: and get a good trade or did I miss something else?


No trade: same net squeeze, though black can play a threatening the snapback so can capture the marked white stone as scant compensation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X 3 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W a . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 4 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #90 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:34 pm 
Gosei
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I guess it's time to cut my losses... :b23: was the wrong direction after all - can't make my stones work together now. I think I will play to develop the top.

Meh... : D

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Post #91 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:50 pm 
Honinbo
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SoDesuNe wrote:
I think I will play to develop the top.
The top doesn't seem urgent — no big development there.
The bottom does: 3-3 (a), or either keima approaches, (b), (c), etc.

B must make sure the bottom doesn't turn into a monster:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . a . . b . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #92 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:04 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


See previous posts to for the whole sequence.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Reasoning 1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O O O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O O X 3 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X 5 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 4 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Reasoning 2-a
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . 2 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I said I don't like this because it forces White to defend and I had no clue what to do with :b23: ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Reasoning 2-b
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 1 6 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Now I again have a stone on the place, where I disliked :b23: (here: :b25: ) and White defended even better (more potential). Of course there is some Aji but my stones still do not have any deeper meaning.
In the end :b23: forced me to play a move I did not want to play in the first place. Funny how things go...


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O 9 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I now plan with this.
:b29: helps me deal with some nightmares I have about my corner. And it can also help connecting the black group I just created because most likely White will attack there next. Or go for a huge Moyo?

I guess this is the one and only turn-based-game I will ever play. I have horrors, imagining that I have to stare at this position for an undefined time and always see my mistakes ^^

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Post #93 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:44 pm 
Honinbo
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Possible?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #94 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:57 am 
Tengen
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Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Connected. Now White has no glaring weaknesses and Black is sealed in. Whether I can kill that corner is tight, I keep reading things that almost work but not quite.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . 1 6 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 5 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I almost liked :w27: here to prevent Black from playing it in sente, but to be honest I like being cut off like this a lot less than in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #95 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:40 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #96 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:02 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


An odd choice. This is gote for him, and I think I've cracked that corner

EDIT: no it's not, what a hasty stupid response by me... le idiot!

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #97 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:42 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So sad. :cry:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O 9 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


OC, the solid connection is the correct connection.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


But how about this play? Don't let the double keima get away.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #98 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:43 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1810
Liked others: 490
Was liked: 365
Rank: KGS 1-dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O . 9 0 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . 4 . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 'a' and 'b' are Miai, aren't they?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O 1 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O b X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 2 O 1 . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Or is this his plan, so that :b31: does not threaten to connect easily?

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #99 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:48 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Clumsy me. Planning on the following now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 3 O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 3 O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 2 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X 5 O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O X . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O 3 X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In each case the sequence is sente for me ..

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 Post subject: Re: #239 SoDesuNe vs topazg
Post #100 Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:55 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Further thoughts:

Actually, in hindsight, maybe this wasn't so bad. I was thinking that the solid connection was clearly better, but I'm actually not sure how easy the life and death is in the corner then:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . B . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 4 6 7 W X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X , X O . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 1 X . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This looks unkillable to my untrained eye.

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