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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #21 Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:09 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 47
Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This move would never have occurred to me if left to my own devices, but it showed up in a Waltheri's go patter search, with the more common move in this direction as "b". I played out several variations of B's response from a-f, and they all look workable to me. Of course, there is always danger in replaying pro moves without really understanding them, and I by no means understand the complex situation that this move creates, but it looks fun and from my limited abilities, looks like a good move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 b c a 4 d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . e , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . f . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #22 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:47 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4510
Location: Chatteris, UK
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Well, that's an interesting move, and not one I'd expected particularly, but the idea seems reasonable. The :w14: :b15: exchange can be treated as a form of kikashi - White already has a defensive response from Black, so :w14: has already done work. Now the bigger picture of "making sure Black doesn't get the chance to harrass a heavy group and get loads of points" is a priority, and :w16: seems to serve that purpose well. I don't feel I can easily cut White's two stones in half without facing severe counter-play, so instead I'm going to work towards settling the bottom left while making some points - and it's sort of sente - the threat of cutting off White's :w14: stone is a lot more intimidating now :b17: makes counter-play that much harder.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #23 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 11:59 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
Location: Denver, CO
Liked others: 4
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Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


At first I thought this move might strengthen B's side too much for the little W's gains, but after the sequence bellow, W has a flexible 3-dimensional shape that is difficult to attack. Black may follow with a or b. a looks better to me, but we will see.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I was really expecting a more fighty move from B. It is difficult to handle my stones efficiently after such a calm response. If I tried to connect my stones well, they become heavy. Tenuki looks to be a mistake and the two of them together could come under severe attack. My move is the only real possibility I see. Maybe c or d, but those seem slow.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #24 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 12:10 pm 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


FWIW, this was my sealed move. I can treat :w14: and :w16: lightly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


My feeling is that the :w18: - :b19: exchange is good for Black.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #25 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:33 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4510
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Liked others: 1588
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GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Another unexpected move, and I'm less convinced by this one. R9 is a slightly isolated Black stone, and I think strengthening it like this isn't in White's best interests. I might be missing something, but I don't think Black can hane, which means Black's developing quite thickly, and White seems to be at risk of becoming a touch heavy.

We'll have to see if White has something in mind that I've overlooked I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #26 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:35 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Liked others: 4
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Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 3 . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . 7 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #27 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:40 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4510
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1588
Was liked: 653
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


It was going to be either this or the extension, no other real options. I switched to the wedge at the last minute because it looks too interesting not to. If I extend, it also looks fine tbh, and I get to play this wedge move anyway unless White plays there himself, in which case Black can do this fairly happily:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 3 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So the wedge may be poor, but if he blocks as opposed to cuts, this can't be much worse than the above diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 5 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Either way I can't help but feel White's looking a bit awkward.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #28 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 1:58 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 602
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Liked others: 4
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Rank: 1 kyu KGS
Universal go server handle: djllap
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is really the only move. After he connects, I will make eyespace with the tigers mouth at N7. The peep at O6 looks dangerous, but O5 seems to refute it quite well.

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #29 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:05 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4510
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1588
Was liked: 653
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


No alternatives are worth considering here.

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Post #30 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:07 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #252 djllap vs topazg
Post #31 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Will have a brief think on this one :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . e . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . a . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . i . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . g . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . c , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I've marked the areas of interest to me. "a" is my choice if it's sente against his group, and that's why I'm taking a bit of time to think. If it's not, I'll probably opt for "b". If it is sente, then one of "e" is a useful followup, but I'm not sure which (and not really thinking hard about it until I've decided whether to play "a"). "c" is almost definitely sente because of the threat of peeping at "d", and gives me 4th line points as well as connecting nicely to the marked stone. However, it may make "a" not sente, so it could be sort of aji keshi too. "f" is also big, but I'd want to follow it with "g", and as it's gote, I'm more interested in playing "b" first.

So, yeah, lots to think about!

EDIT: Also, "a" is rather a nice point for him, so unless I get really good value for "i" (it could precede "f" and "g"), I might want to play it simply for the reason we both like it.

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Post #32 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Ok, I've decided the temperature has dropped too far to warrant another move. Playing my "a" in the last post and having him ignore and take a point in this corner is just a loss for me unless I can prove that "a" was really sente, and I'm unconvinced that I can. If the stones on the top were mine, I'd gladly play it as it's just pure points even if it's gote. In this position? I can't convince myself that White is in trouble if he ignores it, and if White plays it, it's not sente (it just settles his group for sure). So, I'm going for the big points

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Post #33 Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 10:51 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I like the two space high pincer. I think a pincer is necessary because W's stones in the upper right are low, and it is difficult to make anything big on top. The left is the more interesting side, and I think it is the side with more potential.

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Post #34 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:22 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


With that pincer, I get to invade in sente, so I'm going to. More points can't be a bad thing :)

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Post #35 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Post #36 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:05 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4510
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 9 . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Relatively happy here. More points. This is the expectation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O f . . |
$$ | . 5 X 1 . 7 . . e . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 O O 2 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . x x . . y . . , y . g . . , . . . |
$$ | . . x x . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . x x . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . x x . . y . . . y . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . . . O . . . O d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


If White omits :w36: then "a" is really quite painful. If he doesn't then I'm thinking what plans to make for the rest of the gain. "b" followed by "c" (or the 3-3 if he takes "c"), "d", "e" and "f" are all big. I could also build a plan around the "x" area, but to be honest I'm tempted to just make more points, as the game burden of demonstrating the value of the results so far lies more in White's hands than Black's. (By which I mean White has chosen a lot of moves that have left Black with points locally in exchange for influence and potential - if I keep increasing the number of points I have, it's up to White to come up with a plan to catch back up - psychologically, I'm feeling quite favourably towards playing that way here).

EDIT: The way he's chosen to play this corner rather increases the temperature of "g" again, as the influence over the box I've labelled "y" could become significant. It's that more than anything that might persuade me to take "g" myself, or handle the "x" area directly. Of course the "b" + "c" exchange helps too, but I'm somewhat wondering if he would respond to "b" with "c" now and put his faith in a large moyo

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Post #37 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:07 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 9 . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 8 O 0 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Post #38 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . 1 O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


See post #36

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Post #39 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:24 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . 1 O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Post #40 Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:30 am 
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Posts: 4510
Location: Chatteris, UK
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . 1 O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


See post #36

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