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#252 djllap vs topazg
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11850
Page 4 of 8

Author:  DJLLAP [ Sun May 24, 2015 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . c . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 . 4 . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 8 . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 9 X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I put quite a lot of reading into this move. Not just for this local sequence, but also where to go next when I get sente. I really think I need sente to build something significant in the center. Here is what I think will happen locally, afterward I want to play "a". If B responds at B to reduce the center I think it is very dangerous for B's left side group. "c" i really calling out to me, but it is a very gote move, so I want to make sure I get some attacking done before I grab it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 8 4 1 O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . b . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . a X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  topazg [ Mon May 25, 2015 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  DJLLAP [ Mon May 25, 2015 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  topazg [ Mon May 25, 2015 4:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Really? That feels toothpasty, maybe I'm missing something :-?

Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon May 25, 2015 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Mi-mi-mi-mi-mee!

Toothpaste on my shoulder makes me happy.
Toothpaste in my eyes can make me cry.

:D

Author:  DJLLAP [ Mon May 25, 2015 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  topazg [ Mon May 25, 2015 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

I want to think about this. First instinct says "just extend", but I need to compare these two diagrams:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 B . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . 7 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


... and ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 B . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 7 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In both cases the marked stone has lost most of its aji. In the first diagram, I'd be very fond of it if there was something particularly nasty against the lower left corner, but there doesn't seem to be other than the obvious (open skirt, monkey jump, yada yada yada). It leaves a bit more aji in the marked stone too, so it's my choice right now, but ... yeah, it also gives White a bit more points and stability in the upper middle. So I want to have a bit of a further think.

Author:  topazg [ Mon May 25, 2015 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think I found what I was looking for. Will see what he does next!

Author:  DJLLAP [ Mon May 25, 2015 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As planned.

Author:  topazg [ Mon May 25, 2015 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . 7 . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Well, this promises to be fun :)

Author:  DJLLAP [ Tue May 26, 2015 12:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . 7 8 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I started reading out variations, but there were so many I got tired. I tested for 'a', 'b', and 'c'. We'll see how it goes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . c 7 8 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . a 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . b . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  topazg [ Tue May 26, 2015 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . 7 8 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 9 . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Author:  topazg [ Tue May 26, 2015 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Some of the reading here is hideous. It's all about exact liberties, and frankly, so easy to bodge up badly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . a 7 8 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 0 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 9 . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is my next move for those interested. The atari looks crude, but I needed to prevent the below diagram from being too painful. I'm sure there was a more elegant way to approach this, even simply hane-ing underneath, but that just seemed to lack fighting spirit somehow

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 1 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X 2 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X 3 4 X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Without the atari, I just can't prevent this... now I have some interesting resources:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 1 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O O X 2 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 8 X 3 4 X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 0 9 6 5 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . a X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . 9 . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . X X O 8 O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 5 O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . b . 3 X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 2 6 O X C X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The extension at "a" is now sente I think, opening up both "b" moves, so living isn't a problem. I'm not too worried about him getting that group at the bottom in exchange for running into the centre. Particularly as if I make D10 a viable move, he has to be careful of his own central group. Moves like :w76: can't be omitted due to shortage of liberties problems. I'll be honest though, this is a bit of a mess!

Author:  DJLLAP [ Tue May 26, 2015 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . 7 8 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 0 6 X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 9 . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is the only answer that looks satisfactory. It is very complicated though. Especially since the bottom left corner enters into the fighting.

Author:  topazg [ Tue May 26, 2015 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Having re-read my other sequences, I'm going to "exchange" this first I think. I should probably have done this before the other exchanges, but my reading wasn't up to the task originally. I have "exchange" in quotes because technically White can ignore this. I can turn it into a ko for the entire corner though, with 3 local threats for White, so I'm quietly hopeful that I should be able to either profit in a big way in the corner, or get to eat White's two invady stones.... Lots of complications ahead!

Author:  DJLLAP [ Tue May 26, 2015 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . . X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


For some reason, I didn't even consider the possibility of a non-local response. This exchange makes many of my variations not work, so I don't think I have a choice but to take a hit in the center. Hopefully I can get some compensation.

Author:  topazg [ Tue May 26, 2015 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


And now to return to the action. I still have to suffer some ugly shape mess ... on the plus side, I get these two stones now.

Author:  DJLLAP [ Tue May 26, 2015 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X 4 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . X . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I think I can block the side in sente and then come backk and grab a big point like N10.

Author:  topazg [ Tue May 26, 2015 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X 4 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . X 5 . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The start of a mess....

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X 4 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . 0 X 5 6 X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 8 7 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . X X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . b O X . . O O X O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . a X . O X X O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . c O 5 4 7 2 1 C X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 . 8 . . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I had thought that "a" was a ko threat, imagining that White would connect at "b" if I pushed through, but if White connects at "c", then I don't think I have anything. So I might need to look for useful ko threat moves. It's a semi-picnic ko in that I don't really need to win if I have some good followup moves, as I'd originally sort of written off that lower side. However, I could have hane'd underneath at the very beginning and kept territory down here. I didn't because that centre is big ... which means if I'm going to lose this ko, I ought to neutralise the centre fairly completely really.

EDIT: lol, just realised that's no ko. I may play differently for :b67: ...

Author:  DJLLAP [ Tue May 26, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: #252 djllap vs topazg

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X . 3 X O . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . . O O X 4 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . X 5 6 X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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