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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #21 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:15 pm 
Lives in sente

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I'm surprised that dangerdoom is not expecting Q6, which is my first instinct.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #23 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:38 am 
Lives in gote
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If B answers ones more on the right and W gets a move around K17 I would prefer W here. :w14: is just in a great positon then in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #24 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:01 pm 
Oza

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Celebrir wrote:
If B answers ones more on the right and W gets a move around K17 I would prefer W here. :w14: is just in a great positon then in my opinion.

Sure, but the upper left is just screaming for black to approach on the other side.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #25 Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:39 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry I took so long for this one.

15 is a kind of a painful move to make, but I guess it's valuable. I hope that the thickness he can make by pressing me there will be overconcentrated.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . a . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #26 Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:09 pm 
Lives with ko

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After :b15: the aji in the corner became worse but not by much.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . @ . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . @ . @ . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . @ . @ . 8 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . @ . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black invades at san-san I think I can play :w18: and keep the corner for myself. So I decided to tenuki and prevent the double wing formation in the upper right. It feels a little bit strange to play the same pattern in two opposite corners but this is a very common pattern. And may be it is so common because it is really good.

While investigating the corner situation I found this amazing game. Only in the upper right part of the board white sacrificed 19 :o stones and won the game.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #27 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:04 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 7 . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to build potential on the left side and limit him in the bottom left. I feel behind because I am so invadable and he has two solid groups with good shape and a lot of territory. My asset in this game is that I am spread out pretty widely so I have to figure out how to use that.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #28 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:33 am 
Judan

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 a . b . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The more solid :w16: is usual, leaving a two space extension in reserve. Wa, as in the game, is more thin, leaving only a one space extension to "b" if Black invades.

_________________
Don't cry for me, Sergeant Tina.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #29 Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see any other options but invade somewhere. And :w18: is probably the most usual way to enter the mini-chinese framework. Besides I can hope to cut off the H4 stone in some typical variations and make my stones work together. For example
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q X . . |
$$ | . . X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X Q . . . X . , . . . Q . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . X Q . . . . Q . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also considered c11.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 2 . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now the same invasion looks more comfortable but the cost is high. Can't say if this is better or worse than in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . b . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The other possible invasions are a and b but I looked at some pro games and didn't like the outcome. I didn't consider seriously the invasion in the upper right because it looks more narrow.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #30 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:07 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 9 , . . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I hope that by attacking D5 I can solidify my upper left side and get some strength for an invasion on the right lower side.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #31 Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:31 am 
Lives with ko

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 0 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Still plan to cut off the H4 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . 5 . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black defends all his weaknesses so I don't like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . 3 . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is rather popular move but I don't understand it. Don't know what to do after simple :b3:.
And also in the following variation the ladder doesn't work for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 0 7 8 . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X 3 4 9 . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #32 Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:05 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 2k
KGS: dangerdoom
Contagious
Tygem: dangerdoom
IGS: madlib
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . 4 O 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 5 X 1 2 . . X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


maybe he will do something like this and give me something on the side, and hopefully some aji remains on the lower side for me.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #33 Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:24 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 145
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 14
KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X 2 . 4 X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@dangerdoom Trigger. If you play :b23: I play :w24:
It is kind of a joseki

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #34 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:40 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 2k
KGS: dangerdoom
Contagious
Tygem: dangerdoom
IGS: madlib
trigger accepted

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X 2 . 4 X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X 2 . 4 X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would like to play an extension but the aji of moves like 26 means my left side isn't finished.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #35 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:48 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 145
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 14
KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . 8 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The first instinct and after some thought I still think it is good. I just have a strong feeling that white has to add a stone here. In a normal game I even would not confirm it with the reading. But since it is a Malkovich game I devised this approximate variation that justifies my fears.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Looks dangerous
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . 7 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . 4 . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X 5 1 2 . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 3 O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is even more safe but I can't force myself to consider such a move seriously.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . 8 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black can try to save his stone but it should not be good for him right now. Later I should be careful about something like this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . 4 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . Q 3 . 2 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X 1 , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also thought about this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . 9 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but didn't like it.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #36 Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:52 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 23
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 2k
KGS: dangerdoom
Contagious
Tygem: dangerdoom
IGS: madlib
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . 8 . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I count the territory as being roughly even but his is more solid so I think that he is ahead.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #37 Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:06 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 145
Location: Russia, Krasnoyarsk, (GMT+07:00)
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 14
KGS: 2k
IGS: 4k
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
Universal go server handle: tegais
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Borderline of two moyos.

Black can cut like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 1 2 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X 6 5 7 . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . Q . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

so it was safer to play at :b1: myself. However I don't like it because I could play there even without the marked stone. Therefore such a move feels like an inefficient use of my stones.

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #38 Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:56 am 
Lives in gote
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KGS: 1.Dan
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
I feel a-c are very big but not urgent points and am curious at which point they're playing them.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . a . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #39 Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:07 am 
Oza

Posts: 2463
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Celebrir wrote:
I feel a-c are very big but not urgent points and am curious at which point they're playing them.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . a . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . e . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure when the right timing is to consolidate the right side. I'm reluctant to play A because black has potential to invade the corner or the top side later, and that would remove one and make the other harder. As a result, I'd want to wait until I had a clear plan to deal with the top. My eye is drawn to something like D or E as the border of two frameworks. Maybe black can go as far as one point left of E. Being able to get something here in sente would be lovely. Black also has potential to do something on the bottom directly, or invade the lower right corner.

Looking at it a bit more, I think that you could treat A and B as miai, since both secure a corner and forestall an invasion from the opponent. B seems a bit bigger in terms of the invasion in prevents, but A could create invasion potential on the left side too. Perhaps one could try for E in sente, then play B and respond to A reasonably?

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 Post subject: Re: #253 : dangerdoom vs. TegaiS
Post #40 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:41 pm 
Dies in gote

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Rank: KGS 2k
KGS: dangerdoom
Contagious
Tygem: dangerdoom
IGS: madlib
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . O X . , . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's area on the bottom is looking really big. 30 was a move which expanded his bottom while reducing my left. 31 expands my right a little bit while reducing his center a little and threatening to reduce it more. I will have to decide if an invasion is necessary, and I worry that it will have to be a desperately deep invasion to give me a chance to win.

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