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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #21 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:55 am 
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Basically, I considered four options.

Option 1:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The move above doesn't look good, because the left side doesn't seem very developable for either of us.

Option 2:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The move above protects my corner, but I feel it gives him the initiative. Me enclosing vs. him approaching is big, but I'd like to keep the initiative.

Option 3:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Same kind of thing as the last option. It's hard to develop big, since he got the outside in the bottom left.

Option 4:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems like a normal move, and a big point. I think it's bigger than enclosing my own corner, or playing on the right side.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #22 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:30 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'd like to take some territory now. Going low also seems possible, but I chose to go high to cooperate better with my lower left thickness.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #23 Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:31 pm 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
This:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure yet, but the last one seems wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #24 Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:05 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems ok.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #25 Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I play elsewhere, black's approach from the left side will have two purposes: to strengthen its left side and attack my upper left stones.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #26 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:24 am 
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@Observers
Would something like this be playable for white? I think it severely weakens the aji that black's stones on the left have.
I think black wouldn't play 23 after white 22, but that only shows that 3-3 is not as important.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #27 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:44 am 
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What's the status of W's lower left ?
It doesn't seem too weak to me, currently.
But is it thickness ? Unclear to me -- if B gets a move like :b1: ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . B O B . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 . O . O X . O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ------------------------------[/go]
...W has to watch out. Another local B move, and the :bc: stones may spring to life.

uPWarrior, C17 seems pretty big...

I wonder if Bill is watching, and about his assessment. :)

Also, B has this kind of option:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . O O 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . O X 1 O , . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . . 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . 5 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:42 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why not? Maybe I could tenuki, but for what?

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #29 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:09 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I could go one step further, but then black's tiger mouth at C8 would be a strong move. Black can still play the same, but now its value is weakened, and I can attack more smoothley later having a stone one step further.

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Post #30 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:22 pm 
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Hmm... He responded calmly. Now what?

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Post #31 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:52 pm 
Honinbo
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Calm (for now)...
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

-- OR --

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Huge fights ahead...
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Wonder if Kirby will go for a big fighting game...

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Post #32 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:27 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Calm (for now)...
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

-- OR --

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Huge fights ahead...
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Wonder if Kirby will go for a big fighting game...


The enclosure wants to extend on the bottom side, but White is already there. My guess is that Kirby will go for the Chinese, maybe low. :)

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #33 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:32 pm 
Tengen
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@Observers:
Kirby wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why not? Maybe I could tenuki, but for what?


I would have tenukied like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The two black stones in the upper left seem safe enough, but
the three black stones on the left look useless when white plays :w24: on the left side.

Does anyone else think that black missed this one?

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Post #34 Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:19 am 
Honinbo
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Does anyone else think that black missed this one?
If B plans to tenuki after the approach, it seems better to do it directly,
than first do the exchange of ( :bc: :wc: ) ( :b21: :w22: ), which makes B heavier upper left.

Suppose B tenukis directly to :b1: --
This way, (a) is still open (unlike the above var), and :bt: is lighter (unlike the above var) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This post by EdLee was liked by: skydyr
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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #35 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:08 am 
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Still thinking about this one. I have to keep in mind white's privilege to play the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 4 X . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . 1 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Which means that my three marked stones have potential to be attacked.

I can play a move on the right side, but the question becomes, can white's attack on my three black stones compensate for the gain I get by playing first on the right?

If so, I should consider an alternative.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #36 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:11 am 
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So some ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Tenuki
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Vague?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Help my group
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Helping my group seems nice. Taking profit on the right also seems nice.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #37 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:21 am 
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Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if I would normally play this way, but I think it makes sense to help my group. My reasoning is rather simplistic.

1.) If I help my group, I have no other weak groups on the board.

2.) A simple continuation is like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . C C C C . . . . . . . C . . . |
$$ | . . . X . C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | C C O . . X . . X . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | C C C O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C O C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C C C 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C O 1 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C 7 X 2 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X C . . |
$$ | . . X . C C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | . . C C C C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's something like 30 points for white in that area. I have a similar amount of points, and if white plays on the right side, I can take initiative.

Seems somewhat balanced.

He's stronger than me, so it'd probably be good to avoid having weak groups.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #38 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:37 am 
Oza

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Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Kirby wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if I would normally play this way, but I think it makes sense to help my group. My reasoning is rather simplistic.

1.) If I help my group, I have no other weak groups on the board.

2.) A simple continuation is like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . C C C C . . . . . . . C . . . |
$$ | . . . X . C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | C C O . . X . . X . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | C C C O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C O C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C C C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C C C C 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C O 1 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C 7 X 2 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X C . . |
$$ | . . X . C C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ | . . C C C C C C . . . . . . . C C . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's something like 30 points for white in that area. I have a similar amount of points, and if white plays on the right side, I can take initiative.

Seems somewhat balanced.

He's stronger than me, so it'd probably be good to avoid having weak groups.


Locally, I preferred the cap to this as a lighter move. I feel this could quickly leave black with a heavy group that's not doing much. Globally, if black plays to build up something on the right, white's only potential at the moment is the left side, and feels a bit like putting all your eggs in one basket. For white to remove all the aji on the left would be too slow right now, so black can wait until later to play there.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #39 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:35 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 118
Liked others: 2
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I respond by standing up, it'll make black's group stronger, and playing elsewhere seems bad.

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 Post subject: Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Post #40 Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:33 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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