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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #21 Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:55 am 
Lives in gote

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Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My initial thoughts on the position were related to how much it felt happy and fresh like the opening of spring.
So I wanted to continue that the with a move that was also happy and light.

The problem was, I seemed to difficult to find a move with a valid logical explanation, e.g. the diagram below is completely out of the question, as far as I can tell.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11fig_1.04 White's shape isn't yet fit to may a moyou. Black can even have a free strengthening move on the lower side and still easily reduce using the weaknesses in white's shape.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, black wouldn't actually waste time on the lower side, so maybe would invalidate the white fantasy moyou immediately.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11fig_1.05 neutral feeling
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Regarding my actual move, playing on the right also seemed implausible due to the exchanges in the upper right corner. Playing at a... Well, I couldn't think of any reason to play a except for it being shimari (preventing black from approaching, etc.). In any case, the left side is probably the hot are, but I couldn't find a really good move there so I want to hand the choice/burden over to my opponent.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11fig_1.06
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The strategy of :w6: is assuming white is light enough to withstand any attack black may envoke, whereas :w4: would feel less pressure as it should be easier to move in an emergency situation with :w6:. Let the battle begin?

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #22 Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:27 am 
Judan

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Elom is a creative player. It will be interesting to see how skydyr responds to the challenge of unfamiliar positions. :)

I think that if Elom studied what is called common sense in go, he could make rapid strides. Not that his creativity would diminish, but his judgement would improve. :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: dfan
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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #23 Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:57 am 
Oza

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Well, there's another odd move. I'm going to do some ruminating on this. I looked at it a bit over a board last night, and I feel I have a few options:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . e 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . a . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I'm going to start with E first. I think it's too small at the moment, and probably not the right move locally (maybe extend to the second line?) but I had the game position on a board last night and asked my wife, who is probably 25k or weaker, where she would play, and that's what she thought.

I'm a bit skeptical about D, but I put it there because I think I'll need to do something about the right side following white's play at Q13 before it becomes too big. I think it might be aji keshi to play here before I play at the top right, since white could choose to develop or de-emphasize the right side.

C is the real tenuki move I'm considering. I played in a tournament last Saturday with several games with a high 2-space approach to 3-4 that was tenukied, and I'm starting to think that a white attachment at R17 could be quite problematic for black to handle gracefully. At least white C isn't as valuable now that black is strong on top, though. That does make me wonder if I should instead try to live in the corner, pushing white to build a wall facing the top side, and then break up the right.

So on to the situation at hand: Locally I've been looking at A and B. The white stone is on the second line, so it's not exactly very threatening. If white jumps out to A himself, it's as if black had a corner enclosure, white approached, black pincered loosely, and then white decided the best move was to jump down to the second line. Not exactly the best play in that situation. If I take A, I expect something vaguely like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 1 3 5 X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 2 4 . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White lives small on the side, and black gets a wall. :b7: might be possible to omit, but it is quite a good point. Depends on whether black needs sente or not.

With B, I see more of a running fight:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 7 . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 2 . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks pretty favourable too... black's practically alive in the corner until white's group gets stronger, and the black outside wall facing white's very loose position looks quite nice, while white's group is running on dame.

On the other hand, maybe white's move is just a probe. But if so, what is it probing to discover? The diagram after B looks a bit too good to be true. I haven't really examined the corner aji very closely as yet, so I'm not sure if white's move adds a lot to it. If black A, I might think white would jump into the center with E8 or something like that, but then a second move can kill G2 on a pretty large scale.

The 2-4 attachment doesn't seem very spectacular. White gets a pointless second line group or a tripod group and black gets really thick.

I'll think about this more and come back to it.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #24 Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:06 am 
Judan

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The play that skydyr considers in the top right corner is :b1:. It pushes through a moderately narrow opening, which is good. :) But IMO it is problematic.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . 4 3 X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 2 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The reason is the combination of :w2: and :w4:, cutting off :b1:. :b5: - :w8: is one possible continuation. Notice how the White stones are working together. There is a reason for that, which I learned from Sonoda 9 dan. Diagonal relationships are good for sabaki. The :wc: stones have a diagonal relationship to start with, and all of :w2: - :w8: occupy the same diagonal lines. :b5: is probably ill advised.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . 4 3 X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this variation :b5: takes one of the diagonal points for White. But after :w6: Black still has some worries.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . 2 1 . B . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Better, IMO, to play something like :b1:, to disrupt White's diagonal relationship. Now if :w2:, maybe :b3:. Note that :b1: and :b3: maintain a diagonal relationship with :bc:. :)

_________________
"Drooling Banjos"


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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #25 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:25 am 
Oza

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I haven't reached any new conclusions, but I decided on this instead of one space below so as not to give white a peep.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #26 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:19 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1fig_1.07
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I struggled to find a move which seemed "great", per se, but the only move that seemed to make sense (halfway) to play now was this. Maybe white can probe at be using G2 and the threat at a, although it does seem slightly superfluous regarding whether it gains anything for white. But at this point in the game I am already confused.

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #27 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:14 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2459
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This feels natural, and white's so thin.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #28 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:30 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 394
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Rank: 4.1415...k kgs [5sf]
Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looking at the board, I cannot think of a goal for white and so I cannot think of a move.
Instead, I'm just playing what "feels" right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 fig_1.08 Maybe this may be played later to strengthen white?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a 9 c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . b . . . 5 . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?


Last edited by Elom on Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #29 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:32 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 394
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Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
Sorry, double post.

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #30 Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:29 pm 
Oza

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I've been sick since about mid last week and not really thinking much about go. I played the previous move really quickly through exhaustion, and regretted it shortly after but felt it wasn't right to request a retraction. On the whole, it's not terrible, but I feel it allows white a lot of scope for forcing moves on the inside.

I'm thinking about the current move now... white still feels quite thin, but I'm not sure if it's too early to invade or play a severe reduction. I may want to play on the right first, but at the same time, a white move to block the center from the top is quite big. White still has a lot of weaknesses, so perhaps patience is called for. I'll probably be able to play before my trip, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #31 Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:28 pm 
Oza

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Sorry, I haven't had much time to think about this this week, and will be out for a couple weeks now. I'll try and play soon when I get back.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #32 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:10 am 
Oza

Posts: 2459
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For all the thought I put into this a few weeks ago, I've forgotten it mostly. I feel that white's still thin in the center so I can safely ignore that for the time being. I want to split white here to create some weak groups and get the game moving along. Ideally, by pressuring the top I'll be able to ruin the center naturally, as well as the right.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #33 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:50 am 
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Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
Sorry for the delay,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11fig_1.09
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . b . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . a . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At first, I had a problem with this position due to the isolation of the upper side stone. Playing on the upper side will make black stronger, negatively affecting white on the other parts of the board. The right side stone seemed more important; however I was a little unsure as to whether white should play a large knights move or some other move. A large knights move seemed to induce more opportunities for black to invade white's right side position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11fig_1.10 Black can manage the fight, possibly?.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . 6 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #34 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:37 am 
Oza

Posts: 2459
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is more instinctual than anything else. I feel white supported the wrong side, so I want to provoke white into a running fight that will ruin his center, living small to give me center strength to ruin his center, or giving me a gigantic corner.

There is counter attack potential with an invasion on the top side, but I think that would favour black at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #35 Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 7:59 am 
Oza

Posts: 2459
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Universal go server handle: skydyr
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Are we still playing?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #36 Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:57 pm 
Lives in gote

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Rank: 4.1415...k kgs [5sf]
Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
skydyr wrote:
Are we still playing?


Hello! Yes, I'm very sorry about such a long time of delay, however I was still thinking about the next move the past month and a half, but I should have (but didn't) give notice as it was so difficult to decide upon a move I couldn't come to a decision within the time I had for one given day...

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?


Last edited by Elom on Tue May 31, 2016 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #37 Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:12 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 394
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Universal go server handle: Elom, WindnWater
Okay,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was a rather prolonged move due to the fact that it often took longer to make a decision I was happy with in the time I had for one sitting (busy times :) )
However, I think many times of relooking at the position has helped in clarifying some elements of the position.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21fig_1.11 Difficulty
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . Y . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . T . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At first it appeared quite difficult to form any meaningful territory within white's area of central influence, for example, it seemed that white responds at G7 after a black peek at G8, making a moyou rather tricky to finish off. It seemed rather narrow in any case...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21fig_1.12 Options
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I couldn't think of any move on the right that would give a clear benifit superior to a central play, as white coold take advantage of any black play there. For example, white could attach at b in response to a. I also didn't want to mobilise the isolated upper side stone for reasons simliar to not wanting to make a knight's move enclosure; white is unsure of which direction white would want to go at the moment, as it would be preferable for it to be in accordance with the eventual centre position, making these plays appear too early.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.13 Black seems flexible?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 3 . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.14 A plan of attack.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, I am still a little unsure as to whether white should take an offensive or defensive approach towards the central area-- if black decides to peek at 1, should white concede a portion of the centre for solid territory? Black seems to gain a formidable amount of control which could affect the right side, so I guess it would have a large impact on white's play on the right side. White's stones seem either slightly wasted or concentrated on the left.

In the second diagram, it feels more natural to attack directly, but it must be impossible to cleanly capture the black stone.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.14 Special agent, G2.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . a b . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


One option may be to "counter", at 2: black may try to prevent the connection to G2, but this gives white the opportunity to respond harshly with a move in the center, at "a", maybe (or "b", possibly?). However, black would most likely move directly into the center after 2, as it seems to be a good trade for black, completely.

Moyou games...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.15 A possible future play?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.16 Tit-for-Tat tactics
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black approaches at 1, I would move to a. If black decides to simply move relatively gently into the white moyou, around the 7th line, I can't see white doing anything except passively defending-- This is another issue with the formation. If black goes in deeper than that, white probably has no choice except to attack, at least hoping to gain some profit if possible if black isn't killed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1fig_1.15 Moving the O17 stone.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . c a X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As mentioned, I also considered mobilising the upper side stone, but it really does seem too early. After one, black Q17 seems to be able to threaten white into a position which is very small (Q18, P18?).
Maybe white should go for an a-b-c style sequence, however, this may have a negative effect on the center position for white, as black gains strong stones facing towards that direction. White probably wants to settle the central position first.
Attaching on top of M17 (black 23), and moves of the like, only seem to give a position white can accept if the area was already taken by black.

Overall, white can save the aji and play in this corner any time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1fig_1.16 There is an open door here, so white probably shouldn't pincer if black plays here.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
B: We are only few. But we will do it. We will get through this preliminary and claim unforetold glory for millions of years to come!
Go stone Army: Yeah!!!
A: You might want to increase your chances from the level of just three people in your army. ?

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 Post subject: Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom
Post #38 Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:37 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2459
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered tenuki and a direct reduction from the center, but decided that this is best because it's a big point and I don't want to be thrashing around in the center making white strong outside as yet. The downside is that I expect white to play a knight's move to start closing off the moyo, but I think I can still invade or reduce and it should give me sente to claim a big top right or invade on the right or approach the bottom right.

This reminds me of a go congress game I played a few years ago where my opponent played these imposing but loose two space jumps to claim a big center and I then played solidly and cut it to pieces later.

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