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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #181 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:28 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1k EGF 2k
KGS: Schachus12
tj86430 wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . 8 7 . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . 9 . 0 X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . 4 O 3 . . 5 X O . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The solid connection is the only possibility. Playing the tiger's mouth one point to the left allows him to trap the M4 group.

I'm curious: what would have happened if B played O4 instead of the solid connection?


Seems like a very legitimate question to me. I had missed that move, but I cant seem to find anything wrong with it. It seems to me even better than the game continuation, though that also looks to me like magicwand merely destroyed his aji with the bottom sequence. If there is anything wrong with that move, I would like to see it, too.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #182 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:31 pm 
Tengen
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@Observers:
I wanted to play 96 at the obvious point:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O 1 X . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X 2 . . X . 5 . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But the hane at M9 is very strong.
Any time he plays N5, I must reply with N4.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . . 3 5 7 9 . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . 1 2 4 6 8 . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O W . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X B . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So moves like 1, 3, 5, and 7 are all sente.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #183 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:37 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4837
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O 1 X . . . 7 4 . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X 2 . . X . 5 . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i know it is an overplay but have to play this way to have any chance to win

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #184 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:02 pm 
Tengen
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@Observers:
The cut? I thought that the clamp was his best play. I was prepared to concede him some territory just to maintain superior influence for the coming dispute in the upper right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . 2 1 . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . 6 5 X 3 |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X . . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So what evil scheme is he hatching now? My reflex is to extend, but I must do some reading just in case the atari is better.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #185 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:23 pm 
Tengen
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@Observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...So what evil scheme is he hatching now?...

I think that I know. It looks like this:

White cuts with 1, black extends with 2;
White stands up with 3...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . C . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . 3 1 X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X . . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...black, fearing that white might trap him against the side by playing the circled point, develops at 4.

It looks good for black. If white extends at O5, black defends at O4. White cannot escape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O 1 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X 2 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But white has an evil trap.

He threatens to escape with 1. Black defends at 2.
White ataris with 3, black defends again with 4.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . 3 X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 2 X X . . X 4 O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X 1 O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is the move that I almost missed. Insead of playing O5, white plays O4.
Black must capture at O5 or lose his L4 group when white plays O5 himself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O 2 . O X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X 1 . X X O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X O O 3 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White plays 3, and now the Q4 stones are dead.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #186 Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:13 pm 
Dies with sente

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I'm not sure that Joaz's line actually works for White. By 1-2-3 reading (I think this is how it's applied), Black should look at playing at O3 first, and this seems to save things:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O 3 . O X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X 1 . X X O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X O O 2 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O 4 5 O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 8 X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(If White plays :w3: anywhere else, Black captures there immediately and connects everything.)

By making the M3-L4 exchange in Joaz's second diagram, White has also given himself a shortage of liberties, no?


This post by studying was liked by: ez4u
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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #187 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:10 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 5246
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 928
Was liked: 1322
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . 0 . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O 1 X . . 9 7 4 . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X 2 . . X . 5 . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers:
I want to run down this cutting stone as fast as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #188 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:33 am 
Tengen
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Location: Banbeck Vale
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Rank: 1D AGA
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Kaya handle: Test
Trigger:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X 2 . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X 1 |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X . . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even with a generous count, the most my opponent has is 25 points. I have around 45 or 50 points. The focus soon will shift to the upper and right sides, where I have a huge lead in influence. It will some spectacular play by him to just break even on territory in those areas.

To have any chance at winning, he needs a fight, and it must go his way. Playing normal moves won't work for him.

So I'm playing safe moves, intending to quickly kill any stones that might disrupt the status quo.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #189 Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:10 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4837
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 500
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #190 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:13 pm 
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X O a . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He has choice a or b.
b will give me throwin and ko so he has to take the stones.
afther throwin i can live.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . d X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . b O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 7 6 X O 2 0 3 X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 5 X X 1 a X 4 O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X d O 9 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i think my reading is good that i didnt miss anything.
my opponent probably read same and contemplating really hard.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #191 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Unfortunately, that variation does not give me enough points to overcome the current deficit because of losing sente and hurting my corner (ko).
i had no choice because it is still better than giving him everything. :(

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #192 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:09 pm 
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It may be a while before I reply. Western civilization requires saving once again, and then Mrs. Banbeck and I are taking a short vacation for the Labor Day weekend, and then I have to sit and think about this for a while.

Western civilization is over-rated. The real problem here is that MW has written two hidden posts. I know from experience watching his games against other people that he writes a lot when he thinks that he is doing well, and little or nothing when he thinks that he is losing. I think that I'm winning, needing only to beat back one last desperate sneaky attack - but he posts TWICE, as if he thinks that he is winning.

So I have to look at this all over again, Mark Twain style. ( "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.")

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Post #193 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:06 pm 
Dies with sente

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@magicwand:
What was "b" supposed to be in your first diagram?


@observers
I'm guessing "b" is meant to be M3, and magicwand is imagining a sequence like:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 6 3 X O 5 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 2 X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X 1 O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O 4 . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Notice that this line isn't nearly as effective if Black already has O3 in place, which is why I still think it's the vital point:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 4 3 X O . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 2 X X O . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X 5 O 1 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #194 Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:57 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
studying...
sorry...it was edited while posting. another cut was B.
I will be honest. I still think i have missed something because it looks very hard for white to find something from that small area.
but it appears i can get something after all. one thing for sure...aji was there. korean old saying when it stinks aji there must me tusuji.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #195 Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:37 pm 
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X C 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X . X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After much reading, I am dismayed to conclude that I must give up something. This move minimizes the loss.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #196 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:54 pm 
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . . X . 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 3 X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #197 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O . 4 X . 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X C X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 5 4 X . 2 . . X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 6 X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers:
He can get R5, but that is all.

And he is slowly erasing the aji that protects his central group. Under certain circumstances, L7 can come alive.

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #198 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:46 pm 
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 5 4 X . 2 . 7 X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 6 X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #199 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:08 am 
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Posts: 5246
Location: Banbeck Vale
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Was liked: 1322
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 5 4 X . 2 8 7 X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 6 X X 1 . X . O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trying to hold on to R5 gets into situations like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O O X X 2 X . O X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O 4 X B O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X 1 O 3 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . 6 X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . 8 O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O O X X 2 X 5 O X O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X X X X O 4 X B O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X 1 O 3 X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...in which his dead stones suddenly get two eyes.

So I have to let him have R5. Surprisingly, the stones that capture it are remarkably little trouble for me (aside from the obvious loss of territory. I may be able to ignore them.

( And, yes, there is a ko in the corner if I play R4. But I don't want to add complexities. )

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 Post subject: Re: #263 Magicwand vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #200 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:34 am 
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101 Prisoners: :black: :black:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O . X . O . O . X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X X X X . . . X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X O . O . O . O O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . O X O O . O . O 5 4 X . 2 8 7 . O . |
$$ | . O X X O X X X O X 6 X X 1 . X 9 O . |
$$ | . O X . X O X . X O X . O . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . X O O . . O X O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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