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| #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13687 |
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: This move and B10 are miai. He has to answer. If I get both, his group dies. ... Joaz Banbeck wrote: ... I think my reading is good, but I'm not absolutely sure... I don't see how this white group lives. I've found what I believed was a way to live, then I found that life was impossible. Then I found another one, and soon after found that life wasn't possible then either. I've gone back and forth six times, and it is still before breakfast. |
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| Author: | Go_Japan [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Is this GG? I don't see a way to live. I previously thought E6 might be something, but I now don't think it can work. |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
I would try something like this:
I heard somewhere six points is alive... |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Maybe black plays this way:
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Question for Joaz Mind showing us the sequence you read?  |
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| Author: | dfan [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
A correction to the game record: White has captured 3 prisoners, not 2 (the third one was with move 76). |
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| Author: | Go_Japan [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
emeraldemon wrote: I would try something like this:
I heard somewhere six points is alive... In response to C10, Black can play B11 and B9 is no longer forcing. I tried a bunch of variations and couldn't see it make life. I don't really know how to post files here, but I still don't see white living there. Black seems completely or nearly connected and quite safe in all parts of the board. White dying here is GG, imho. O3 seems to have a bit of aji as well in the corner open for black still, though using that kind of Aji is not something I am very good at. |
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Sorry for the delay. I overlooked the last Black move. Considered only B5. Now it is hard to find the way to live. Here White can start a ko with B11. Not really good but better than nothing.
I will post some other variations later. |
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| Author: | Go_Japan [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
TegaiS wrote: Sorry for the delay. I overlooked the last Black move. Considered only B5. Now it is hard to find the way to live. Here White can start a ko with B11. Not really good but better than nothing.
I will post some other variations later. I think A11 is not necessary. If black plays B11 in response to A10, white still has to get another eye from attacking the D7 stone. I don't think it is possible, but perhaps. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
emeraldemon wrote: Question for Joaz Mind showing us the sequence you read? Sequence? Singular? There is a whole bunch of them. I can barely handle six impossible things before breakfast, but not near that many after dinner.  Rather, I'll try to break it down into several little battlefields. I'll show how each of them work in isolation. I'll leave it to you observers to figure out how they interact.  First, let us observe that the stone that I just played cannot be killed, nor can white connect under it. Most importantly, B9 by white is gote in all variations. Here are several general patterns:
Next, let's look at the lower end of the group. This is a pattern that is probably familiar to all of us. It has no branches ( at least no reasonable ones for white that I can see ):
Lastly, there is the issue of the lone black stone at D7.
It can be saved in most variations. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: ...
This may be better for black:
BTW, this variation does not help white:
...because later black may run safely to 'a', connecting easily with the tiger's mouth at 'b'. |
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Here White can only make one eye in gote.
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Couldn't find nothing better. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
White's latest move is probably the best. It seems to get the most room for eyes. But by my reading it is not quite enough. |
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
His move starts to trap my D7 stone. I'll sacrifice it if he wishes to kill it, but in return he will have to let me slide under into his eye space. He can kill it now with one move, but while he does so, I can attempt to rescue it and turn it into a false eye. He then gets one eye along the side. If he takes two moves to capture it, he can turn it into a real eye, but with my intervening two moves I can slide into his eye space along the side. There is also one other line in which he captures D7 AND blocks my invaders underneath but I play D8 - and in some lines C8 - leaving him with one big eye. I don't have time to edit and post diagrams, but I can say with 99% certainty that this white group is dead. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
@ Observers: I almost went for this line. It seems more solid than the line that I played.
But white lives with ko.  I assumed that he would continue with the vital point at B8, and that I would prevent the second eye with D8:
White can try a net, but it doesn't work:
...because one of the netting stones gets laddered first. Therefore white dies, right? It looks like he does. ( A9 and A7 are miai ) However, if D8 is good for me, then according to the proverb, it should be good for him. I was idly looking at it, assuming that I would kill easily if I got the vital point at B8.
But white has this sequence: First, he plays A10, threatening to either kill B10 for an eye, or connect underneath to his stone at B13. I have to reply.
There are more complicated replies than this, but they all end in sente for white, and they all prevent the black connection underneath at A9. Next, white attempts to capture the D7 stone: Again, the net does not work:
White does capture the stones, but black throws in like this:
...and white does not get his second eye. So white tries laddering the D7 stone. The ladder does not capture either:
However, while playing a failed ladder, white has enclosed just enough space on the back side of the ladder, and finishes with a second eye like this:
It now gets more complicated. Black has the mouse-stealing-oil tesuji.  The failed ladder has two side effects. It gets white his second eye, but it shorts white on crucial liberties and endangers his first eye. So black attempts to rescue his vital point stone, white blocks, and black completes the tesuji:
White then starts a ko for life:
If I can find this ko, my opponent can find it also. So at move 93 I have to play B6 instead.
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| Author: | TegaiS [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
In advance I thought that this gives me more chances than C4 or A4 but may be I was wrong. I think I made a mistake in English in my previous comment. It should probably be "Couldn't find anything better" not "nothing better". |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #264 Joaz Banbeck vs TegaiS |
Forced, of course. |
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