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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #61 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:53 am 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O W O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Safety first. Following previous reading.

The white corner is big, especially if he slides out next. But that would give me sente, so I don't mind too much.

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Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #62 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 10:57 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I went over this in my last video and I truly feel there isn't much to discuss here beyond what I've already said to merit another video. I'll reconsider this proposition after I'm done with classes and add another video here if I think I'm wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #63 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:02 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No sense pushing my luck here. White has no weakness to attack, it's only black that can get cut up. This also makes me a bit thicker, and white doesn't get to peep at N13.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #64 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:34 am 
Gosei
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I think white got the better end of that deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #65 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:09 pm 
Gosei
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That 5-5 stone seems awkward still though.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #66 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:39 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . W . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #67 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:24 pm 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well he's done a good job building a position I am not familiar with. Perfect :)

I don't want to give him a second big corner, so I invade. And I don't think whatever thickness he gets in return will be a big deal, with the thick capture and left side hoshi stone there for black.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #68 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:32 am 
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To Araban:

I'm surprised Black played M14 straight away - Doesn't Q14 fix the cut (so N14 isn't needed), and potentially do so in sente while starting to develop the right hand side? It felt like a no brainer from my humble observer point of view!

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #69 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:53 am 
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topazg wrote:
To Araban:

I'm surprised Black played M14 straight away - Doesn't Q14 fix the cut (so N14 isn't needed), and potentially do so in sente while starting to develop the right hand side? It felt like a no brainer from my humble observer point of view!

Yep, I expressed similar sentiments in the video commentary for Move 29 - 33 at the 5:15 mark where I threw in the annotation. Here are some variations I would have considered as B that I didn't mention in the video:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Feels better for B this way.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X X 1 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I tenuki after 1 instead, then B can utilize the bad aji in the corner to make appropriate forcing moves that will allow Black to not worry about netting and make my two stones "naturally useless":
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Up to 9, White can't get both good points 'a' and 'b'.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . 9 . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . O . . . . . . . O X O O 4 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 1 3 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Not much different directly capturing.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 . . X X O O O . b . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . 2 . O . . . . . . . O X O O . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I don't play 8, then a->8->b looks troublesome.

Note: 3:00am here taking the occasional homework breaks, so if something feels off I'll edit later after homework submission and the epic sleep after all-nighter :).

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #70 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:53 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #71 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:51 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . W . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . W . W . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something I just learned today is that this enclosure has a very funny name, called a "pillbox": http://senseis.xmp.net/?Pillbox
There is also some fascinating history behind the enclosure as well: http://senseis.xmp.net/?PillboxHistory

Unfortunately, it seems research on this corner enclosure is extremely scarce and very little information can be found on it.

But regardless, it's not quite the same because Black invaded first before I had a chance to build the formation. When reading about the 3-5 + 5-5 "enclosure" I played, it seems that there is no information regarding the 3-3 invasion: http://senseis.xmp.net/?3555Enclosure - This kind of goes with my hunch that I mentioned in my video that the 3-3 invasion was a tad too deep. The aji at the 4-4 point is obvious from a double-peep, and with some room in the corner for maneuverability, it is unreasonable to expect killing the stone. There is a very simple and clean variation that ensure Black's life fairy quickly, but we'll see how Black plays first. My aim is as much "profit" as possible with sente.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #72 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 5:12 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


.. to make life in there, or break out. I choose the attachment at E18 rather than B15, because if white gets thick facing the top side it's no big deal, since I also have thickness there. But white thickness facing the left would be more of a problem for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #73 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:58 am 
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Regarding the pillbox formation - there is an excellent article by Lee Chang Ho in one of Yutopian's "Go Winds" pamphlets. Sorry, I cannot recall which one.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #74 Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:45 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W X . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Triggers:
D17 -> C18



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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #75 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:37 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 305
Liked others: 1
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Rank: hopeless
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O X 5 . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 O 4 . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bummer. It looks like white 2 pretty much destroys me. Probably will resign soon.

_________________
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #76 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:26 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . W X X O O . . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This post by Solomon was liked by: Chew Terr
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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #77 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:18 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 305
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 16
Rank: hopeless
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O 2 . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 X 1 . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pretty crappy but at least I don't have to resign immediately. I am thinking of the points a as miai:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X a . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O 2 . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . a . 3 X 1 . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

_________________
Main Entry: zing·er Pronunciation: \ˈziŋ-ər\
1 : something causing or meant to cause interest, surprise, or shock
2 : a pointed witty remark or retort

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #78 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:52 pm 
Judan
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I don't think that the two points marked 'a' are truly miai. Yes, they are both points that both sides would like to get, but they are not really equal or interchangable as the term miai suggests.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X a . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O 2 . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . a . 3 X 1 . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White can take the leftmost one, and then can force the following sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X 1 3 5 . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O 2 4 . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . W . X X X . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . 6 . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Black then has two choices:

He can run with the upper group, and the central one dies as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X X X 1 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . O . X X X 3 . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 2 . 4 O . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Or he can run with the central one, and the upper one is in trouble:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X X X 4 9 . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O 5 6 X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . O . X X X . . 0 7 2 3 O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 . . O 8 . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


And it probably dies in a variation similar to this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X X X O X 2 4 X 6 . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O 3 O X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . O . X X X . . O . O X O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O X . . O O . 5 O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


...although it is complex and I haven't read all the variations.

The other possibility is to let white save his two stones:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram 6 - variation of diagram 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O O O 3 5 X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . O . X X X . . . 4 2 . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 . . O . 8 . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 7 . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


And now one white group is running between two eyeless black groups.

All of these possibilities look better for white, IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #79 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:08 pm 
Honinbo

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As black, I'd be inclined to play this way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . W X X O O 1 . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X 2 3 . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yes, white got a lot in the corner, but this seems more playable for black from my perspective.

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 Post subject: Re: Araban vs. zinger : Malkovich #22
Post #80 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 7:56 pm 
Gosei
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Location: Bellevue, WA
Liked others: 90
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Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O O O . . . . X X O O O . . . |
$$ | . W . X X X . . . , . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

When I was in middle school, I had the strangest obsession with the game show "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?". I felt like I was in the hot seat trying to decide between G18 or B16. At the $16,000 point and with all lifelines used up, G18 is the move where I'd walk away with the $16,000 somewhat satisfied and B16 is the move where I'd go for the $32,000 despite some uncertainty and be safe at the milestone (I think they changed the money ladder recently though, I haven't kept track in the last few years).

However, I trust in my reading and from what I've read, Black will either lose the top stones or the clumped stones in the middle in an elaborate net and I'm fairly confident that I've read it correctly, no worries about ko either. If the net fails to work though, then I walk with $1,000 :(.



This post by Solomon was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, SpongeBob
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