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 Post subject: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #1 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:21 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
White: fevobod152
Black: rlaalswo
Rules: Japanese
Komi: 6.5


This post by fevobod152 was liked by: dfan
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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #2 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:07 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
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Was liked: 3
Have a good game!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like to play 4-4 because of its flexibility. You can go for territory or influence. You can play solid or fight strong. All depends on how the opponent plays, and I like to adjust to the opponent's play style.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #3 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:45 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
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Was liked: 4
Thank you, you too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I play a pretty simple game. So there may not be much to comment on until the middle game, we'll see.

I'll begin with a double 4-4 or 4-4 and 3-4.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #4 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:47 pm 
Dies with sente

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Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like having or giving large moyos.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #5 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:40 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll play more territorial for now. If Black 1-space approaches the 3-4, I'll pincer and we'll have some fun from there.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #6 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:43 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
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Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I expect, and I personally feel comfortable with this position. If white pincers, I believe my upper right stone will help.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #7 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:08 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since Black has Q16, I'd rather pincer low for the option of more easily building a right-side base. Then, in the future, if I choose to invade the 3-3 (R17), for example, I'll have a group blocking his development of the right.

I expect he'll respond at P6 or R3. He could even try S5. They're all playable for White.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #8 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:41 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is simple and not a bad move.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #9 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:17 pm 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Basic continuation. White has the ladder for many variations. White often establishes a base on both sides of the corner.


Last edited by fevobod152 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #10 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:19 pm 
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Posts: 106
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Playing the simplest variation.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #11 Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:37 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . W O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If you expect R7 to be pincered with support from above, P3 is a good alternative to Q2. Black can attempt to press at O4 to gain a stronger attack on R7. but White can simply tenuki into R17, or elsewhere, and later followup with R2, etc. If Black S4, White can also tenuki.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #12 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 5:01 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

AI style joseki.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #13 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 8:52 am 
Dies in gote

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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Common probe for this shape. Played before White O5. If Black 55, nothing much changes. If Black Q6 to further split White, then White S5 and the fight would already be more favourable than before (for White). If Black Q7 to build a stronger followup pincer at L7 against the bottom White group, then the game may get complicated.

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Post #14 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:32 am 
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[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Very unexpected. My instinct is that white's move is a bit overplay and can be punished by black Q6 or Q7. White will have 2 unsettled groups while black has 1, so the fight will be easier for black. However, I don't want to make complex fights this early, and this move, I believe, still holds an even game while leaving my group settled.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #15 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:24 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Good for White: achieves efficient light play, seals Black from the center, and has endgame and ko threat potential by sacrificing a stone that was unimportant for both sides (i.e. Black did not need to capture R5 to live, see below).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Black has lost O4. White gains another forcing move at S7.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O S . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . T . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc S5 would also live while keeping White less flexible.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #16 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:00 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X B . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #17 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:56 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

See previous post for P6.

I expect he will extend to around F3 or invade the 3-3 (C17).

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #18 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:04 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is that really enough for white? The corner was white's, and I lived in sente. I could play 3-3, but I prefer a balanced game. Why not approach the other side? It practically doesn't matter, but when white pincers, I don't want the white stone to come closer to my lower left stone making it feel a bit lonely.

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 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #19 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:13 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 57
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #267 rlaalswo v. fevobod152
Post #20 Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:27 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 106
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

AI proves that the upper left exchange is even as is, so I'll first reduce white's influence while making my stone stronger.

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