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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #21 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:04 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Following my plan. No other possible move, White needs to make a base and protect the cut D2.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #22 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:32 am 
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Universal go server handle: hailthorn
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like the position at the bottom left is settled enough for me to play this move. I feel like it is imperative for me to play here and cut into white's sphere of influence. I considered B14 but I feared the pincer. However that is the move I would like to play on my next turn if able. :study:

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #23 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:42 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That was expected, he is pincering my two stones but thanks to H8 the pincer is not too severe, and for the moment :b17: is also weak. I don't really have any severe attack on the group F5, so the only sensible thing to do is to attack :b17:. There are essentially two ways of attacking.

The first one is to attack on the side and start a running battle. The direction of play may look like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O a . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


While White may seem to be builing potential on the top, this doesn't look good at all, the group E8 is now severely pincered, the cut at "a" is exposed, and if E8 doesn't die it will need to struggle a lot to survive, so Black will make a lot of profit in the process.

The second way is to make a capping attack at one of the following places:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . c . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"b" doesn't seem good, I can't find a good response if Black plays "c" next.

Concerning "a", I am afraid of the following variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 3 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White seems at a disadvantage here, Black is too thick around and White has too many cutting points.

So remains move "c". Maybe Black will attach next, and then I'll probably hane:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if the sequence is good. In any case I won't absolutely try to save all stones, some of them will be sacrificed in the process. I'll try to build a strong group in order to control the center, which may help later if I need to invade the right side.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #24 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:15 pm 
Gosei

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As White, I would have taken away the base (probably with C13) without a second thought, for better or worse. It's one of those moves that seems so correct from a fundamentals viewpoint that I'd really need a serious concrete reason not to play it.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #25 Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:55 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If one read my previous comment this was the move I had planned to play!

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #26 Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:51 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yes, although I didn't mention it in my previous post, I expected that move too. I didn't attack Black on the side, so it's natural for Black to make a base and approach the corner at the same time.

For White, tenuki is not an option. First because responding to a corner approach, although not always necessary, is always big. And second because Black is still weakish, and putting pressure on weak groups is generally urgent. OK, so now how to respond to Black's last move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . i . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . h d O . c . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . e a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X f g . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . j . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


First, I discard moves like "f" or "g". Not only these moves don't enclose Black, but also White doesn't have any extension around K16, so not much potential on the top side.

What if I extend at "b" or "c"? Then I expect Black "h", White "i". Or maybe an AI joseki starting with Black "d" but I don't think he will play it since he says he has been on a long hiatus so may not have followed post-AI developments. Then the stone D11 is slightly misplaced and there is a weakness at "j", however if White tries to exploit it and makes a living group on the side, Black will be reinforced and this in turn will weaken the other white group F10.

So better protect the corner with one of the moves a, d or e. I don't think that "d" is good, the hoshi stone is a bit too lonely to play a move like that. I don't have a good feeling about "e", although I can't express why. So I'll go for the kick "a". I expect Black "f" next, so that Black is a bit overconcentrated because D11 is a bit too close. Then I'll extend to "b" or "c", I don't know which one yet. Whatever the continuation, this doesn't protect the upper left corner since Black can always invade at "i", but I think it's fine, I feel more satisfied with White's development than with other options.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #27 Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:31 pm 
Oza

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dfan wrote:
As White, I would have taken away the base (probably with C13) without a second thought, for better or worse. It's one of those moves that seems so correct from a fundamentals viewpoint that I'd really need a serious concrete reason not to play it.

I would have chosen D13 personally, but it's the same idea and felt like the only type of move to play to me. White seems strong enough and could always lean on the other black group if necessary. White also needs to start thinking about making points with his area of influence before it all becomes valueless due to fighting, and using a corner enclosure to simultaneously attack seems a good way to start.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #28 Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:32 pm 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Seems like a natural move to me.

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 Post subject: Re: jlt v. hailthorn
Post #29 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:04 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Didn't expect this. I thought the game would continue as in the diagram below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 I expected this
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Then the stone D11 would not be ideally placed, but Black would be reasonably secure for now so maybe could tenuki and aim at a, b or c later. Normally :b21: is necessary to prevent White from making a tiger's mouth, which is a good shape. Moves on the second line like Black did in the game are rarely good at this stage, when there are still bigger points to be played.

In light of this, I want to respond to the game move with a tiger's mouth:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


If Black extends with "a" then I can block the corner with "b", and Black's shape looks cramped, while White develops nicely.

On the other hand, Black may want to take the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


White gave up some points in the corner, but in exchange got a nice influence, the stone D11 is a bit lonely, and White's group F10 is strengthened. The corner was never White's anyway, Black always had the option to invade at the 3-3 point.

Instead of the tiger's mouth :w22:, I could consider to block the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Then I think that Black needs to play at :b23: anyway, otherwise Black's shape would be horrible if White plays there next. Then this looks like the normal joseki with an additional bad exchange :b21: - :w22: for Black.

I don't know which move is best between D14 and B16. I don't think any of the two options is bad. Need to take a decision. I could toss a coin, or play nigiri against myself. Or just say that it's a matter of style, and that I like influence and strong groups, so let's take D14 and see how the game develops.

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Post #30 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:31 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #31 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:35 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only move.

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Post #32 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:20 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1131
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Big oof. :scratch:

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Post #33 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:39 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He doesn't want the corner? Then I take it. I think it's pretty big, not only in terms of points, but also because this secures my group D16 so that I only have one weak group on the board, while making Black's group B14 not completely alive.

Another option would have been to play like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


This would have enclosed Black while loosely connecting my two white groups and building a huge central influence. Again this is hard to decide but my impression was that the corner was too big and should be taken. But since White didn't play at E12, it's quite possible that Black will play there next, in order to separate the two white groups.

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Post #34 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:56 am 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not very happy with this board. I've made some blunders and misreads and everything expected with a mid level SDK. Am I playing at a SDK level? I'm not sure. Probably not. But I am going to keep doing my best. :tmbup:

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Post #35 Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:22 pm 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . 1 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's one of the threats I was talking about in post #19. I don't see any way to live in sente nor to get out, so it's a bit sad but I have to live small and in gote.

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Post #36 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:18 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There were a lot of moves I considered but I decided with this one because it feels big. :batman:

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Post #37 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:09 pm 
Gosei

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I can't imagine anything is bigger, for either side, than B16.

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Post #38 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:32 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As predicted a few moves earlier. The theory says that whenever Black has a 4-4 point and the two neighboring star points, White should invade at the 3-3 point because one of the stones (the marked stone in the diagram below) becomes inefficient:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . c X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . Y . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . d . X . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He might also block in the other direction but I don't think he will, otherwise why did he play H2? Obviously he wants to make territory at the bottom.

Other points I considered, or that I may consider in the future:

"a" encloses Black, loosely connects two white groups and builds a strong influence.

"b": a corner approach is one of the standard moves to play against sanrensei, so it can't be bad.

"c" prevents Black C2 and puts a little more pressure on the black group, but feels a bit premature, I have invested too many stones in the area already.

"d" aims at separating the lower left black group from its friends, but doesn't work at all, not only because in some variation a laddered white stone will run into :bt: but also because my central white group is not strong enough and I would probably end up with two weak groups.

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Post #39 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:20 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The natural move to coexist with my stones.

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Post #40 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:43 am 
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[go]$$Wcm32 Black Captures: 0 White Captures: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As expected. Only one possible answer. If Black wants sente he can play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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