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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #141 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:22 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm125 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X . X 2 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . . O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #142 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:30 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: Gorim
OGS: Dokuganryu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm125 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X . X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . 3 O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . . O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Will I channel my inner Kato?!

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #143 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:36 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm127 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X . X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X 2 O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . . O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #144 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:37 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: Gorim
OGS: Dokuganryu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm127 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X 3 X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . . O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #145 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:40 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm129 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . 2 O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #146 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:47 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: Gorim
OGS: Dokuganryu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm129 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . O O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . 3 X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #147 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:50 am 
Gosei
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I think I am dead but let's continue a few moves.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X 2 . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O . X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . O O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . X X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #148 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:11 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1d
KGS: Gorim
OGS: Dokuganryu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm131 Captures B:0 W:3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . O , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X X X O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O O O X O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . O . X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O X X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . X O X O O . O 3 X . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . O X O X . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . O X X X . O O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . X X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Didn't expect something that big to die in a Malkovich game

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #149 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:15 am 
Gosei
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I resign. Thank you for the game!

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #150 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:25 am 
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Thanks! It was quite a heavy thinking game for me.

At first, I tried to be less aggressive than usual, hence I "built territory" on the O and P lines, instead of cutting and fighting there.

I must say that as soon as I did that, I regretted it - your influence seemed too much for me to cope with.

The ease in which I survived with the K10 group was quite a surprise, even though the game seems to be quite even after that, and my positions had much weaknesses that you could exploit.

I admit that I felt behind in that phase of the game, and made moves in hope that you will answer them directly, instead of starting to exploit my weaknesses. My hopes were fulfilled, and I think that was why I won in the end. If white assumed a bit more assertive style and start pushing black around, things could go different.

Being afraid of the many weaknesses in my shape, I was relieved that you choose to play B15 in the end. While it was quite a few points, it was gote, and gave me another chance to fix myself.

K7 was probably unnecessary at that point, E9 probably would be enough to win the game by a very small margin.

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 Post subject: Re: #268 Gorim vs jlt
Post #151 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:22 am 
Gosei
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I'll try to review the game a bit from the point of view of White. Thanks again for that interesting game and thanks to spectators for their comments, I will read them after this.

After move 11, Katago wants to play like this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc If Black omits :b2: then White can cut at a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . O . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O X . X a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |[/go]


For many moves after that, Katago thinks that N15 is an important point for both sides.

At move 34, White didn't choose the best joseki. Katago wants to play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc :b8: can be at a or b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 . . . . . . O . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 O . . . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 a . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At move 50, I played "a" but wondered if b would have been better. Katago agrees but thinks that c is even better

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . c a . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . b . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The followup is this sequence which is quite unnatural for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 5 1 2 . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 3 . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At move 70, a possible continuation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 a . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X 9 4 2 X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 7 3 1 O X X X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . O O O X . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . O . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After this White cuts at "a", the central black group can survive in the center.

Move 104 was a 4pt endgame mistake according to Katago. White should have played like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b a O . O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . O O . . , . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . X . X . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X . . . X O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . O X X X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O O X . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X O . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . . O . . . . . O O O 1 . . |
$$ | . O O O . . O X X X . . O X O , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O X . . X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A black move at a is not dangerous because White can clamp at b.

After a couple of 1-2 pt mistakes, White started to be in a quite difficult position.

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