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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #121 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:39 am 
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This is an interesting position. I have read out some ways to profit on the right from his tenuki, but I can't condemn his last move too much, because the profit that I can see seems somewhat small compared to other parts of the board.

I am considering a play on the left, but it's hard for me to say the best sequence if I go that route.

I do believe I am winning at the moment, and definitely prefer black to white on this board.

However, how I react here could be a turning point, and my move deserves extra thought.

To all kibitzers, I promise that I will not play until I find a route I am totally happy with. :)

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Offline Laman
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #122 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:11 pm 
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haha, even when Kirby is winning (and declares he thinks he is winning), he still sounds too worried to me :). but that might be just my feeling

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . W X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . b X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

being black my first instinct would be to make white suffer for his tenuki by playing 'a'. seems like just pushing white down to second line might work well enough. and it is a strong sente

but the more i look at it, i think Kirby is possibly right that the left side is even bigger. i like 'b' in the area, solidifying black's territory and aiming at reduction of white's top, for example b D17 becomes interesting after 'b'. or just E16, F16

hmm, after such analysis it is not so easy to decide where to play as i would thought

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #123 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:00 pm 
Gosei
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Oscar Wilde wrote:
This suspense is terrible. I hope it lasts!

Man, the building suspense is unbearable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . d O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , b c . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . e . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . s X g X O . |
$$ | . . 7 3 2 . . . . . . O X o m n i X . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O e t h . . |
$$ | . 4 X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . 6 O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here are some things I have been thinking about. Obviously not complete ideas, after all, it's not my sente.

Edit: More groundedly, I'm thinking about what-if-black-pushes-out-with-that-left-moyo-G7-or-something. I'm not especially worried about the right, Kirby has too many holes himself. But I really don't want to have to invade the left, I'd much rather just play some yose at the edges.

Edit 2: Hmm, playing with move orders from currently on hold ideas, what if P10 Q10 R10 Q11 R8 (sort of variations)! Mannnn I wish I thought of this a few moves earlier. Maybe there are holes, maybe it will stay applicable... Something is there.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #124 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:49 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Well played, Loons. I really don't know how to handle this situation... So I will just try my best.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #125 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:46 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 9 . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Haha, thanks. I'm afraid I don't know how to handle this situation either... At least you made this move easy for me :P.
I think Kirby's move was quite good. If he stops me expanding in the centre, I get the slide, whatever that's worth. I wonder if Kirby has a plan to take sente here, and if so for what. I guess he might be segueing into some kind of aggressive-moyo-expansion. Have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

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Offline SpongeBob
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #126 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:44 pm 
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@Kirby:
What was your intention when playing this last move 73? To me it looks like it just strengthens white.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #127 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:21 pm 
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@SpongeBob:
I said earlier:
Quote:
To all kibitzers, I promise that I will not play until I find a route I am totally happy with.


Well, the route that I am happy with is one that puts the left side to use. Here is what I'm thinking of for my next move, but I am contemplating some of the details a bit:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I played high on the left, and it's hard to turn it into territory in one move. So I don't think I can attempt to. Instead, I want to make a moyo with my high stones, threaten him to invade it, and then profit from the attack.

I want to play a move that stretches out, like the one marked in the diagram above. I think that the move I actually just played in the game helps toward supporting the stone I'm planning on playing.

I also feel that, since Loons played low, the last exchange benefits me more than him. That's because he's already guaranteed territory in that area. The only way I would not want to is if the move were aji keshi. Maybe if I wanted to sometime play one spot higher than where I actually played in the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O B . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This might be an attacking way to play, but with the stones I have on the board already, I think moyo is the strategy I need to adopt on that part of the board. So that's the route I'm happy with.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my reasoning, anyway.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #128 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:26 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, why worry? I'll just play as I planned (see previous post).

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #129 Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:41 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Four exchanges to endgame I think.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . O O . . t . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . o n e . . . . . . . h . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . r . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . |
$$ | . . . . f . . . . . . . . . X . O . e |
$$ | . . . X o . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . u . . . . . t . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . r . . . . . w O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . o . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So the limiting exchange or reluctant invasion at four will be the last midgame. It's possible that the right will degenerate into some kind of fighting, but I think it should be fairly straightforward.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #130 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:01 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Not much to think about here, I suppose.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #131 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:17 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . 3 O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I might have overlooked some problem variations with 77 at E16. Problems for whom, I`m not sure.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #132 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:24 pm 
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G13 looks a bit risky, but I wonder what happens if I play it...

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #133 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There's no way G13 could turn out well for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . 8 3 O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 7 6 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . 8 6 X O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . 7 5 X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yuck. I could play one below :b4:, above, but it's still a terrible result.



Trigger for Loons:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . 4 O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X X X 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #134 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:17 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . 8 O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X X X 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Why is it that your diagrams always have spaces in front of them ?
Much as I'd like to tenuki to one of my weak groups, this area is big for both people, so I can't really leave it alone.

Haha, I should have known to be suspicious when he started playing moves very quickly.


Edit; trigger accepted, I'm going to think a while on my next move though.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #135 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:40 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:P
Fine, invasion it is keeping my options open it is. Sente would have been a preferable result. (Pretty sure I'm not allowed to be sad about 30 point settled territories, even if they're gote. I say this now, but we'll see what Kirby manages against those weak groups.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | o o o o o o o o o . . . . x x x x x x |
$$ | o o o o o o o o o . . . . x x x x x x |
$$ | . . O O o O o o o o O X X X . x x . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 o o o o o O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . X O O B o . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | x x x x x x X . . . . . . . . . . o o |
$$ | x x x x . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | x x x x . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | x x x X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | x x B . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | x x x . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . x x |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X x X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X W W X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O W W X X O . |
$$ | o o . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O o O |
$$ | o o o o o . . . . x x x x X X . O O o |
$$ | o o o o o . . . . x x x x x . . . o o |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Counting like this. White total 56.5, Black 58+sente (stone added to secure that area). White has two weak groups, black is thin in the centre right. Black has more potential, but probably also has to fix invasion aji.


Oh yeah, Kirby, are you posting diagrams of your counts? I'd like to compare those after the game.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #136 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:15 am 
Honinbo

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You seem to assume I am counting, Loons... :-p

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #137 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:17 am 
Honinbo

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H13 is the kind of move you want to play, but you just don't know if he'll answer it.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #138 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:00 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . O X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , O X O . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . X O O X . . . O O . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . . O . O X . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O O . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . X . X O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . X X X O X X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the right move to play. I cannot justify a tenuki.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #139 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:02 pm 
Honinbo

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To any observers (please do not read this, Loons):

Was my last move a mistake? I really want to tenuki... But it just doesn't feel right to tenuki. But I still want to. What should I have done?

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 109. Loons vs. Kirby
Post #140 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:11 pm 
Honinbo

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The more I look at the board, the more I feel OK with my last move. I don't think I could have tenuki'd...

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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