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Offline EdLee
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Post #241 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:36 pm 
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I don't know what to do. :oops: In post-game review, I'd like to know if :w92: :b93: was the losing exchange.
I had considered :b1: (instead of :b93:), but thought it was OK because I still had :w2:, but I missed :b93:.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . O X
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . , . O
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]
After :b93:, I wish I had played this variation (instead of :w92:) :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . . . O X
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O
$$ | . . . O . . 1 . . , . O
$$ | . . O . . X 2 . X . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ +------------------------[/go]

So let's probe with the :w94: hane and go from there. :-|
(p)
Instead of :w94:: one variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X 1 7 9 . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O 6 . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O 8 . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
And then...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11 :w21: cross-cuts at (a)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X Q O X O X . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . 3 O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . X 1 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . 6 X , . . . . . , 2 . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . 5 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . 9 0 . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X a . X . . . W . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
W is still behind after :b18:, so it depends on B's replies to :w21:.

W fell behind after :wc: :wc:, but managed to catch up a bit after :wt:;
dropping the burden of the upper right corner was a good choice for W.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #242 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:21 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm95
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . 1 O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

...Of course. Allowing Ed to connect his hane at :b95: is unthinkable. I haven't "read" the ensuing fight, but I think I should profit reasonably from it.

Tangentially, thinking about my H17 yose sequence, I have decided Ed responding at F13 is too uncomfortable (considering I am building the middle).

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Offline EdLee
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Post #243 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:26 pm 
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One idea for :w94: was to leave it as a probe, so tenuki from the cross cut, and attach with :w1::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X . X O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #244 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:57 pm 
Gosei
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Just to get my wildly incorrect move prediction out of the way.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm96 Prisoners: :w2: :b1:
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . O . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O . . . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . X 6 X O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 1 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , 2 3 . . . X . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . O X . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . X . X X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . X O O O |
$$ | . . W . . X . . . . O B O . . X O . O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Of course, this is gote for white and sente is at least as big as Q19 (ie 15 points), so Ed will not play *exactly* like this. Black will answer cautiously, as there is a latent threat of the marked stones' low liberties.

Ed will probably add sente around the marked stone, at least. However, subject to where black becomes strong and where white destroys points, H17 may become a valuable move again.

Edit: :b99: might just be an underplay.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #245 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Loons, I resign. :) Sorry about the long wait. Even before any review, I learned a lot in this game.
Thank you very much. June 12 - Sept 13, almost exactly 1 month.

Obs (and Loons, too :P):
I stared at the board for days and still could not find anything.
After :w92: :b93:, suddenly I felt very hopeless. I looked at many variations,
but could not find anything that worked for W.
The center-left areas look like there should still be aji for W to do something,
and yet I could not find it. I knew I could continue to play, just hoping
that B may make some mistakes, but I felt that is not right --
because I could not see a clear way that works for W.
I thought I did OK up to :w92:, and I'm disappointed I cannot finish yose.

During the 3 months, some big things happened in my personal life,
so the timing of this game was very interesting. :)
Loons,
If you don't mind, maybe I can sprinkle a few pro notes later, just like my game with Topazg.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #246 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:13 am 
Gosei
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Thanks very much for the game, I enjoyed it thoroughly - and I learned a lot as well. No need to apologise to me about 'long waits'.

I can't wait to open your hide tags :P. Hopefully my comments aren't too absurd.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #247 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:00 am 
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Ah... the joy :twisted: of reading old hidden tags that are 3 months old! Like questions about my ranks! :mrgreen:
Probably most people who used to follow this thread gave up on it a long time ago... but I'll still post my replies,
even if nobody reads them. :batman:

This post by EdLee was liked by: Loons
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Offline lorill
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #248 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:26 am 
Lives with ko

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I'm still reading :batman:
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #249 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:38 am 
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I just finished my cursory readthrough.

Man, the earth-shaking battles that raged back and forth across top while only a few subtle defenses and quiet concessions touched the board!

I'll post a review of my thoughts on the game soon. (Looking forward to any thoughts you add, too!)

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #250 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:39 am 
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Ditto. It was an interesting game.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #251 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:42 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
(Dated June 13, 2011.)
He's not sandbagging. We were at a real live AGA tournament in Santa Monica a just last week where bands spanned several ranks, and he was in the section below me.
Thank you, Robert.
Two years ago at the Santa Monica Coffee Cup, another person who shall remain nameless also accused me of sandbagging:
"You're 1k on KGS? Then why are you playing as 2k here?!" My AGA rank at that time (and all the way until this August at Go Congress)
was 3k and I had to request a self-promotion to 2k for that Coffee Cup.
What that person and some other people don't understand, and which I also could not prove until Go Congress this year,
is that I am so slow that the Cotsen/Coffee Cup short time controls make a huge difference for me.
Cotsen's time control is something like (40 mins. + 3 x 30 secs), or (45 mins. + 3 x 30 secs) -- similar for Coffee Cup.
This is way too fast for me. I always played my full strength at all the Cotsen and Coffee Cup tourneys,
and I could not for the life of me get above AGA 3k (until this August at Go Congress; more on that below.)
I am IGS 2k and KGS 1k-ish -- why? Because when I am at home, I can play slow rated games:
no faster than (Canadian 1 min. + 20 moves/20 mins.), or, no faster than (60 mins. + 5 x 60 secs.)

At the 2011 US Open at Go Congress in August, I registered online to play as AGA 2k (self promotion from AGA 3k).
The irony? At the real-life registration at UCSB, the TD's rejected my self-promotion and kept me at AGA 3k,
based on my lack luster records from previous Cotsens/Coffee Cups.
So there I was, on one hand accused of sandbagging at a Coffee Cup, and on the other I was not allowed to self-promote. :evil:
I waited 10 - 15 minutes to gather myself, and went back to the TD's and tried again: if not 2k, let me play as AGA 1k!
Perseverance worked; or, they were tired of my bothering them. :)

My results in the US Open: 3 wins, 2 losses. I also lost one self-paired game. Now I am AGA 1k.
Why? Because US Open's time control was 90 Minutes + 3 x 30 secs, and only one game per day.
(Cotsen and Coffee Cup were 3 games/day or 2 games/day.)
I never went into byoyomi at the US Open -- the closest was 2~3 minutes left in my initial time.
(Thank you, US Open TD's! :))

So, perhaps for (most?) other people, the time controls don't make much difference.
But for me, the difference is huge. Apples and oranges. :mrgreen:
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #252 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:01 am 
Gosei
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No guarantees on the comments, everyone :P.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #253 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:08 am 
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Teaser for Loons,
Pro: :w92: was not bad, and B should've replied. :b93: was a mistake. :)
So :white:Q18 was bigger than the center -- my judgment was completely wrong.
Were W to finish yose correctly from :w96:, W was still OK, maybe even ahead.
Again, my judgment was completely wrong at a few crucial places.
I'll go back and sprinkle more pro notes later. Sleep time. Stay tuned. :mrgreen:
I sprinkled; all errors and omissions are mine. Enjoy the treasure hunt. :mrgreen:
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 126. EdLee vs Loons
Post #254 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:09 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . 3 1 2 . . . |
$$ X . . . O X 4 . . . |
$$ . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ O . 7 O X X X O . . |
$$ . O . 6 O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------+
$$ . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ X . . . O X 3 . . . |
$$ . . X O O X O . . . |
$$ O . . O X X X O . . |
$$ . O . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ , . . . . . X . X X |
$$ . . . . . O X . X O |
$$ . . X . . X . X X O |
$$ . O X . . . X O O O |
$$ . O X O . . X O . O |
$$ X X O X X . . X O . |
$$ , . O O X . X . O . |
$$ . . . O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

I can understand we were mistaken reckoning this. Corners always surprisingly big, centre always surprisingly small. The points difference is over 20?

One reason I played the game 93 is that I was worried ie. F3 stones weren't invincible - and that this might lead to a larger-than-expected centre reduction. I'm relatively curious as to why 93 was how small (a lot of my victories come from opponents accidentally giving me too many points from influence at the last possible second, so maybe I often make this sort of overplay).

Was your pro suggesting the game was actually close, or is that a polite way of saying "black should probably have resigned earlier"?

Maybe "never say die" should be a go proverb.

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