It is currently Tue Apr 30, 2024 1:40 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #41 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:16 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 655
Location: Czechia
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 41
Rank: 1d KGS
KGS: Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

hmm, this is solid, but i feel black would better off with an extension along the side. i don't know which specific move would be the best, as there are always some issues with the atari left behind, yet pressing my corner stones outvalues them in my opinion

for me, play in this area is a must, with two unsettled groups facing each other. i considered playing one space closer to black, to deny him any space on the left side, but it would leave an effective counter:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 41-1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

black 1 is not something you invite when it would leave you with two weak groups and no prey to hunt

now black stones on the left look about as useful as my ones on the right

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #42 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:28 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Laman's last move is, like M5, exactly what I would play. I find it interesting that similarly ranked players' moves converge quite a lot; of course, however, my thought to invade top right at R14 rather than the 3-3 point did not seem to have occured to either player (and the 3-3 not to me, somehow..?).

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #43 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:03 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 577
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 36
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O B X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O a X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


That move makes a lot of sense. Now it's between defending at 'a' or the big corner at 'b'.

I think that white's g3 group and m5 group have a pretty negative relationship(what does that even mean?) and so I don't want to leave the cut behind for white to take advantage of.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #44 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:27 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 588
Location: NY
Liked others: 124
Was liked: 46
Rank: 2D KGS
emerus' last move seems a little heavy to me. What about this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." -- Bruce Lee


Last edited by Jedo on Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #45 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:30 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4380
Location: North Carolina
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
@Jedo
Looks better to me too.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #46 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:52 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 655
Location: Czechia
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 41
Rank: 1d KGS
KGS: Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #32
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

black threatens to squeeze my stones, but i can't see any impressive result for him. of course i could be terribly mistaken and this is the kind of position where possible punishments are hair-raising

so i decided to play in the upper right. i've inspected many variations after w pincer H17 or contact play G17, but all joseki lines allow for black to play on the top of my stone, and resulting in me getting positions on both sides, while he establishes himself in the middle with access to the center. however, with black upper right, i cannot be comfortable on the top side, so such a result would be unpreferable for me. thus, for lack of better candidates, i decided for taking the sansan, forcing black to play on the top himself

advantage of my move is that all black answers have their flaws - anything on the third line is too low and can be pressed down. ogeima is a weak shape for close combat and keima (best in my opinion) leaves a wide gap that i could exploit late - but not so much if i jump to the black corner next and generate him new thickness to back up his stones

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #47 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:03 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 577
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 36
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #33
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . B . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #48 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:35 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 655
Location: Czechia
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 41
Rank: 1d KGS
KGS: Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #34
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

time to invade in the corner. only alternative would be sente moves or a severe attack against black lower left stones, but i can't see one.

expecting this or a variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 48-1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 4 b . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X 7 3 2 W 0 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . 6 X 1 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

i rob black of some of his territory, but still feel uneasy at best

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #49 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:48 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 577
Liked others: 22
Was liked: 36
Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #35
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #34
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X . a 2 O b . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Previous move was a no-brainer imo. But I've been contemplating 'a' or 'b' for a long time now and really leaning towards the hane underneath.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #50 Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:51 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 655
Location: Czechia
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 41
Rank: 1d KGS
KGS: Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #36
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X . . W O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 141. emerus (1d) vs Laman (1d)
Post #51 Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:16 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . X 7 6 O O 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . 1 X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . # . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . O X O . . . . . . O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I never know when it is time for the variation both players mentioned (1 @ 6, albeit Emerus is leaning towards building a moyo on the right), and when it is time for this variation. Both are normally gote. NB black 'a' and connect will be sente moves for black later in this variation (eg for use as big ko threats).

I am also a bit torn as to whether the squared stone is now excellently placed (first to play in the case of opposing thickness...) or unambitious with respect to the potent thickness and weak white group (Emerus is surely contemplating something similar).

'(All my parens are reminding me of LISP)

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group