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Author Message
Offline TIM82
 Post subject: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Post #1 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:31 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Even game, nigiri, Japanese rules, 6.5 komi, open book.
I'm 1k EGF, 2k-1d on servers. I have no Malkovich or turn-based go experience, let's see how this goes.

I nigiri:
3

A little bio/introduction, also for EdLee
Living in Finland. I started playing somewhere around 2004, got to around 6k by 2008. This was achieved mostly by playing and browsing sometimes random books / SL. No reviews of own games, lectures or systemically study that I can remember. About only fuseki I played then was http://senseis.xmp.net/?KobayashiFuseki , picked up from there.

Had a break from go 2008-2010 (excluding random late-night KGS games with beer for fun). In 2011 moved to new city, and started shortly thereafter visiting local go club about weekly. Random KGS games seemed to have pushed me to 4 kyu at that point. Deciced to play better, so read books, did tsumego systematically, drank more beer, now 1k.

Please crush me mightily, EdLee! :D
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #2 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:04 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
:black:
I'll take Black. Good game, Tim. :) The beer-1k connection is interesting. :)
TIM82 wrote:
I have no Malkovich or turn-based go experience
The only warning is Don't use the Quote button on any posts in this thread (to play your next move) other than your own,
because you might inadvertently reveal hidden texts unintended for you! :) Quote your own posts.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
TIM82 wrote:
Please crush me mightily, EdLee! :D
Mostly, I'm just trying not to trip over myself too much.

This post by EdLee was liked by: Bonobo
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re:
Post #3 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:35 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
EdLee wrote:
The beer-1k connection is interesting. :)

Local club meets at a pub. Although the many good beatings given there by stronger players to me probably contributed too to my improvement, I think both me and those guys are enticed to participate partly by the beer too. So as no beer -> less games, it follows that beer -> improvement. Not a bad situation to be, IMHO. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Would be happy to play cross fuseki , failing that probably two facing 34-points, lets see what black does first.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #4 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:57 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Our local club meets at a coffee shop. I usually get a tea. :)
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Re:
Post #5 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:29 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, chinese in the horizon. If B completes that, I'll extend on the bottom, limiting the framework. If B approaches :w4: I'll approach :b3: (considering it kind-of-miai) and we'll see what comes up next.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #6 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:05 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re:
Post #7 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:02 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Bottom side is most important in my opinion. Considered A below and :w6:. Selected :w6: because it feels more active: I expect Black to split left side or appoarch top left. In either case I get the initiative to pincer that stone and try to get moves shoring up my corners/side. After A below Black would have the initiative.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . 6 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #8 Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:09 pm 
Honinbo
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Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
For beginners. Hmmm, to big wedge or not to big wedge (on the left side)... what's my mood? :study:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners. Some kind of pincer would be a natural way for W to play, but not the only one -- depends on Tim's mood, too. :)
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Re:
Post #9 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:48 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Surprisingly strong reflex to open all hide comments - have managed to avoid that though. Apparently I have followed too many Malkoviches.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


As planned. Various continuation ideas, currently most happy with following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . 2 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I have always felt that this is hard to play as black, allowing W to play on two sides. If EdLee would teach me why this is considered even, would be delighted :)

Another thing I considered:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 7 . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , b . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Using sente to approach at A or enclose at B. Sadly I think black would just ladder my stone by varying 7 to 8, not as happy with that. The basic joseki (6 at 8) instead of this variation is too slow here IMHO, giving black sente.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #10 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:39 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners. Nothing fancy. A basic Joseki.
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Re:
Post #11 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:55 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Oh, that way?
Below reverts back to about what I was planning earlier.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I can accept below play too. I think this is what Ed is after perhaps? joseki would continue A, B, but I think Ed might ignore A, and thus I will probably play into lower left quadrant myself instead of A. Will have to think about that though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #12 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:08 am 
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User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners. Still Joseki.
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Re:
Post #13 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:26 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 5 . 1 . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #14 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:50 am 
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User avatar

Posts: 8859
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Liked others: 349
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm13
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners. Very tempted to play the following variation (never tried it before),
but decided against it because I don't feel like having a Weak Group so early in the game:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: Re:
Post #15 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:59 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
Liked others: 11
Was liked: 28
Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
Online playing schedule: sometimes KGS
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 5 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O 5 . 1 . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


BTW. Just noticed Kogo proposes following. I dont like that here - in the game my group is stronger, so I can fight elsewhere (right) more easily.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . 1 . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
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Post #16 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:03 am 
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Trigger accepted:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm13
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 . O . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For beginners. Descending to :b1: may look nice (trying to remove W's base),
but after :w2:, B has no good reply -- (a) and (b) are Miai for W, killing B's eye in sente -- and B ends up with a Weak Group.
Therefore, the Tiger's Mouth :b15: in the game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 b X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline TIM82
 Post subject: Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Post #17 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:29 am 
Lives with ko

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Probably no more moves from me until evening or tomorrow :salute: - so no hurry in deciding next move

I'm happy with the situation right now :clap:

Not sure what Ed should now do, but my gut feeling is on first capping my bottom middle stone, and if I would just protect, then building around middle right hoshi.

I think I will resist that cap if it comes to that, but have to think carefully through how. Otherwise my position would be quite flat, and bottom middle and left corner are too far from each other to fix easily with just one move?
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Offline EdLee
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Post #18 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:34 am 
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Thanks, Tim. It's 02:32 am here as I type this. Maybe no more from me tonight, either. :)
For beginners. One idea (among others) of :b9: Kosumi was that B had Miai of (a) direction and (b) direction:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
In the game, the sequence up to :b15: had a similar function: Miai of (a) direction and (b) direction --
since W decided to settle his top group with :w16:, B has the option to take the (a) direction:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm15
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #19 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm17
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I have almost zero experience with this move, so if nothing else, lots to learn.
Some thoughts and variations:
If W gets :w2:, it looks like a nice formation for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , 2 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The left side already has 3 W stones, all on the 3rd line -- not sure about how big it is.
If :b1:, W gets to push B around while building nice stones on the outside?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I noticed two things about the low 1-space approach :b1::
- W has (a) and (b) miai
- W(a) works very nicely with :wc:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . a . . W . . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline The Intrepid
 Post subject: Re: #193 TIM82 vs EdLee
Post #20 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 539
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@EdLee
Did you consider approaching on the 4th line at :b1: and, if you did, why did you prefer to play at "a" instead?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . 1 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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