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 Post subject: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:24 am 
Lives in gote

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In order to improve my understanding of Go, I intend to play different styles in my future games on this forum. In this game, I'll try to channel Takemiya. In fact, I am willing to play one more game using Takemiya's style--with White against anyone between 30k and 1k. Don't be shy to issue a challenge to me. If you're interested, please send me a private message or post in the Malkovich registration thread ... and don't read my hidden comments in this game. :)

Takemiya Style Overview:
Acknowledgment: Much of what I know about Takemiya’s style is based upon Master Play: The Style of Takemiya (2008) by Yuan Zhou, and I’ll rely heavily on this resource during this game. I highly recommend this book.

Summary of the Style: In the opening, the focus is on quickly occupying key points and on developing a central moyo. Next, the focus shifts to reinforcing the moyo and to repelling the inevitable invasion into the moyo. The game is often decided based on whether the invasion succeeds or fails.

Other characteristics of the style follow from the above. In order to be able to quickly occupy key points and to develop contours of a central moyo, one must keep sente in the opening as much as possible. From this it follows that one should occupy free corners with 4-4 stones. 4-4 stones influence the center well and they are not overly threatened by approach moves (which means one can easily tenuki to take key points elsewhere on the board). The prevalent use of the sanrensei formation in Takemiya style follows directly from this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Sanrensei fuseki
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . B . . . . . B . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|[/go]

Furthermore, since the goal is to build a central moyo, one must obviously select josekis which result in outside influence instead of corner or side territories. Moreover, since the moyo must be invasion-proof, one must focus on building thick positions. This is a crucial point worth emphasizing. If the moyo lacks thickness--i.e. the walls have cutting points and other aji--the opponent will have no trouble taking advantage of these aji to destroy the moyo. Thus, one must select appropriate josekis, sacrifice stones (sometimes significant numbers of them), spend moves (later in the game) to reinforce the moyo, and take other such measures to achieve the requisite degree of thickness.

Clarification: The central moyo must be constructed naturally through the normal give and take of the game. It must not be forced, as this could lead to unfavorable exchanges which might be hard to compensate for. For example, playing a stone in the center of the board on move 1 is not Takemiya style.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Not Takemiya's move
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Considerations in Favor of the Style: Due to the properties of the edges of the board, corners and sides have many aji that one can take advantage of when invading. Thus, although the style calls for surrendering much of the corner and side territories in the opening, it might still be possible to do damage against these territories later in the game. Conversely, an invading group cannot form a base inside a central moyo, so living inside such moyos is much harder.

Considerations in Opposition of the Style: The style calls for playing in the center, which does not have well developed set patterns (josekis) from which to draw upon. Thus, it is often difficult to know what moves Takemiya style requires in various positions. Moreover, although one must keep sente in the opening as much as possible, eventually one must switch focus to giving up sente so as to reinforce the moyo. Deciding when to make a reinforcing move can be very difficult.

Furthermore, the style can be very risky and requires strong fighting skills. Firstly, the player must surrender a lot of solid territory to the opponent in the opening--which is an obvious risk. Secondly, the game of Go is stacked in favor of life instead of death--it takes less effort to gain liberties than to take than away (it takes 4 stones to surround 1 stone, 6 stones to surround 2 stones, etc.), so it’s easier to live than to kill. Therefore, even though living inside central moyos might be harder than living inside moyos containing side or corner territories, obtaining a living group inside the moyo might still be possible in many cases. Hence the risk and the requirement of being able to fight well.
Takemiya Style and Large Handicap Games:
Takemiya style calls for utilizing 4-4 stones and the sanrensei formation. With the handicap of 6 stones, Black starts with two sanrensei’s for free! This suggests that Takemiya style is suited perfectly for high handicap games.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 6H game = two free sanrensei :shock:
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . Y . . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . Y . . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . Y . . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, as discussed above, the style is difficult to utilize. These difficulties are magnified due to the difference in strength between players in large handicap games. The outcome of the game is often decided by a complicated fight sparked by the invasion into the large central moyo. The stronger player--the invader in this case--will have much better fighting skills. Therefore, the invader has good chances to destroy the moyo and, with it, to win the game. In other words, although, objectively speaking, Takemiya style is tailor-made for large handicap games, the style might not offer the best practical chances for the weaker player.

That said--and I’m speaking from personal experience--playing handicap games this way is incredibly exciting. As such, the next time you play a high-dan or a pro, use Takemiya style to crush your enemy, see him driven before you, and lamentate the hell out of his womenz.


The rules for this game are the following: 6.5 komi, Japanese rules, open book + pro-game database. I'm a bit slow at posting moves at times, but I intend to keep the pace of 1 move per 1-2 days on average. Good luck, have fun, Kirby!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.


Last edited by The Intrepid on Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #2 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:33 am 
Judan

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Takemiya style, huh? My guess is that he'll probably go for san-ren-sei. I'll play 3-4 here, because I think it's more territorial than the 4-4 points that I usually play.

Let's see what he has up his sleeve...


glhf, thx, お願いします, 한수 부탁드립니다, xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo, enjoy!, hi, no undos ok???

_________________
Discipline is remembering what you want. -David Campbell

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #3 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:40 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm3
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes, no undos, of course.

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #4 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:52 am 
Dies with sente
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This should be a great game, I rarely ever see sanrensei anymore. I wonder how Kirby will play knowing The Intrepid's plan

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"It has cost me much, but I have learned... Lemon need not squeeze lemon to survive..!"

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #5 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:26 pm 
Judan

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm3
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I usually play star points, but for same reason as before... I will play 3-4. I didn't put much thought into this, yet, because there are so many options for both sides...

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #6 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:30 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #7 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:34 pm 
Lives in sente

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The Intrepid wrote:
In this game, I'll try to channel Takemiya.



One should only try to channel those who have passed on. The living might be busy. Or drunk. Or both.


This post by snorri was liked by: Splatted
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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #8 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:40 pm 
Oza

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Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
snorri wrote:
The Intrepid wrote:
In this game, I'll try to channel Takemiya.



One should only try to channel those who have passed on. The living might be busy. Or drunk. Or both.

Dancing most likely.


This post by skydyr was liked by 3 people: ez4u, Monadology, Splatted
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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #9 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:01 pm 
Judan

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KGS: Kirby
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . W . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I could enclose a corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or play along the side.

But this is more active, and I like playing this way better.

Still lots of options, and none of the moves I played so far can be that bad. But pretty soon, I'll have to start thinking more deeply.

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Discipline is remembering what you want. -David Campbell

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #10 Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:27 pm 
Lives in gote

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People are already commenting on the game. Sweet! :D I need to catch up on writing commentaries regarding my moves, so I'll make my next move tomorrow. I'm excited about this game!

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.


This post by The Intrepid was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #11 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:58 am 
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I just updated the 1st post to explain Takemiya's style and to offer thoughts regarding the use of the style in large handicap games.


Here are my comments regarding the moves already made in the game:
1. :b1:
The moyo must be developed naturally, so the first move should be to occuoy the empty corner. Takemiya style strongly sggests that his should be accomplished via a 4-4 stone.

2. :w2:
I have yet to review Kirby's past games on this forum so I might be mistaken, but I have a distinct impression that he prefers to play solidly and favors territory over influence. Thus, 3-3 or 3-4 was to be expected.

3. :b3:
Black has to play in a neighbouring corner. Otherwise, coordinating his stones to form a large moyo would be impossible.

4. :w4:
White chose an opening with 3-4 stones facing each other. This is the most common choice among professionals when playing against two 4-4 Black stones. The reason for this is that White stones face away from the 4-4 stones, so Black does not have an advantageous approach toward either of the stones. Moreover, if Black does approach one of the 3-4 stones, White has the option to play a pincer acting as an extension from the other 3-4 stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :b1: coordinates better with :bc: than :b3: does with :bt:
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O , 1 . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . Y . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc :w2: pincer is strong against :b1:
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O , . . . 2 . , . . . . . , O . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|[/go]

5. :b5:
Approaching one of the 3-4 stones was a good option (and seen most commonly among pros). However, Black wants a moyo, Takemiya-style. Sanrensei was, therefore, called for.

6. :w6:
White again chooses the most common move among the pros. I will next play one of the following moves. Move "a" is the more common choice among pros, but "b" has a more direct impact on the moyo-building process than "a" does. I'll likely play "b" but I'll sleep on it first.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . .|
$$ |. . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #12 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:08 am 
Lives in sente
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If Intrepid is trying to channel Takemiya, he should research what Takemiya played in this situation, not what the database says other pros play. I hope he at least considers the top star point.

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Post #13 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:14 am 
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I have heard it said that what Takemiya's cosmic style proved wasn't the greatness of the style, but the genius, and tremendous depth of reading of Takemiya. One can imitate the style, but it's hard to back it up.

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Post #14 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:31 am 
Judan
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wineandgolover wrote:
One can imitate...
Cargo cult science


This post by EdLee was liked by: Bonobo
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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #15 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:25 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'll keep numbering moves, but I don't mind if you don't. :)
Approaching a 3-4 stone was a good alternative, but responding the way I did is fine, too. Notice that :b7: is placed on the 4th line instead of at "a." This is because Black has a stone at Q10. Besides, "a" would be inconsistent with regard to building a central moyo.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 a . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #16 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:19 pm 
Judan

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To be honest, I'm not that used to playing with 3-4, especially as white. But this is how I'd play if I had played a 4-4 in the bottom left, and it doesn't look that bad with a 3-4 stone, either. I still don't think it's that late in the game to have made a huge mistake. I'll have to start thinking more carefully soon...

As a side note, I've been experimenting a little bit on Tygem. Sometimes I spend a lot of time thinking in the opening, which may or may not be good, and I've heard other people say that my opening is better than other parts of my game. So on Tygem, I've been trying to not worry so much about playing optimally at the start, even if it makes me feel behind by the middle game. So that way I think more at that time.

Probably best is to think and play well all of the time, but I want to practice my middle game more. And for that, maybe it's even better if I'm behind more at the beginning sometimes.

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #17 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I found only 3 pro games in the current position, after which Black played "a" "b" or "c." However, I've got different plans. :twisted:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . b a . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #18 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:33 pm 
Gosei
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I vote one space high pincer.

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Post #19 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:44 pm 
Judan
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Loons wrote:
I vote one space high pincer.
I vote 2. :) Big fights.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm9
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Post #20 Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:28 pm 
Judan

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Takemiya style?

I thought that these were Takemiya style. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Kosumi
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 Yonrensei
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . .|
$$ |. . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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