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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #21 Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Original plan at :b15: :
If black plays :w16: at A or B, I'll try to get the points marked C, aiming to developing both sides fast and giving white the upper left corner. I still have some trouble seeing how white gets enough in this family of josekis (see my earlier game with EdLee).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . a X . . c . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . c , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After I played :b15: I realised white may indeed play :w16: as in the game. However, now I'm happy to play the F16, which I considered for previous move too, for two reasons:
    To my eye, there is now more aji in the white structure on the left side with the 15-16 sequence in place.
    If Intrepid would happen to follow the typical corner josekis after my F16, there are variations which will let me give white the corner and take development on both sids, which I was trying to do originally.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #22 Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:57 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If I counter-pincered like I intended to, I was worried that :b2: would force :w3:. Such an exchange would strongly interfere with any sort of ideas of building a moyo by White.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The move in the game prevents this possibility and applies additional pressure on both Black groups.
Edit:
There was also the possibility of leaning onto Black's top group to gain strength against the Black stone below. However, the trade seems good for Black because Black has a stone in the top-right corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , 3 X 5 . . , . . . . . , B . .|
$$ |. O . O . 1 2 8 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #23 Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:05 am 
Lives with ko

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Universal go server handle: TIM82
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was kind of expecting Intrepid to play a pincer of some kind here. Let's see what he's planning.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #24 Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:15 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
In Takemiya style, the moyo has to emerge naturally. Usually, this is accomplished by letting the opponent take as much side and corner territory as he or she wishes in exchange for outside thickness. However, it can also mean building a moyo as a consequence of an attack on one of opponent's groups. By the looks of it, I might get the chance to demonstrate just that in this game. With this in mind, :w20: is essential. It weakens Black's two-space extension while strengthening the weak White group below it.

I like how the game is developing, so far. It should prove to be very interesting and hard-fought.

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #25 Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:40 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 241
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Universal go server handle: TIM82
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, the plan is this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . 3 . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I initially wanted to play :b21: as below, but then :w22: seems potentially problematic.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 1 , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #26 Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:10 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 539
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Since Black did not reinforce the top, White can play there now. After this move, White usually takes the corner (and makes life). This is contrary to the Takemiya style guidelines, but if this White group becomes strong, White can launch a much more effective attack on the Black group below it.

_________________
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #27 Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:42 am 
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I have been quite busy lately. I will continue to be as busy for about a week still, but I'll try to fit in a move or two.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, if we would play bookish sequences from here, I would probably cede the corner to white and get thickness towards right in gote. Scrap that, gote + points for white sucks. :b21: should enable me to fight more strongly - how many groups do you want create, Intrepid? If white tries to enclose, I will push, cut and fight. Otherwise I will just cut and fight. :rambo:

I'm having quite busy and stressful period at work - that might have an effect on my aggressiveness here, or not :D

If somebody wants to see some bookish sequences mentioned above, just tell, I'll add them when not so busy.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #28 Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:44 am 
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No problem. I'm about to head out to a chess tournament for the weekend, so I'm quite busy, as well. I wasn't counting on topazg coming back from the dead when he did, though. I wouldn't start playing two new games, if I knew this was going to happen. :)

I should make my next move some time in the middle of the next week.

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #29 Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:50 pm 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black's last move seems questionable to me. I expected the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X 4 . . O a . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . 1 2 , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
After :w4:, White takes the corner in gote, so Black can come back to cut at "a" or sometimes tenuki elsewhere. Instead, after :b23: in the game, Black risks getting confined to the corner while also making his left group more vulnerable.

As a parenthetical remark, I'm starting to question my play in the top-left. Given that I'm trying to play Takemiya style, getting into complicated josekis/local fights isn't something I should be aiming for early in the game. The problem with complicated fights is that it's easy to lose control/hard to predict the outcome. This is bad from the point of view of Takemiya style because, if it's hard to know the outcome, it's hard to know whether the result will have helped the moyo-building process or hurt it. Takemiya often eschewed complications in the opening and I probably should have done the same. However, the situation looks fine, so far. I think I still have a good chance of ending up with a big moyo in this game.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #30 Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:39 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Feel free to vary :w26: . If you next atari :b27: , I will extend, so in that case you you may as well continue from there...

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #31 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:44 am 
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Sorry for not playing a move. I'll be returning to Go in July, so I plan on resuming this game within the next several weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #32 Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:43 pm 
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Hey, TIM82! If you still wish to continue this game, I'm all for it. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trigger accepted.

I haven't looked at this position for awhile, but it looks very interesting! :) My original intention was to play a moyo game. A moyo is more difficult to achieve with white (that is, without giving up the advantage to the other player), so the moyo has to appear "naturally." This can take several forms. For instance, I can keep offering exchanges (in particular, corner or side josekis) where I always seek to take the outside. The other player may wish to resist this by insisting on taking the outside himself, but the idea is that this would be an unfavorable exchange for him. In other words, if he were to try taking the outside, he would put me in the lead, even though I wouldn't be able to get a moyo.

Another way to get a moyo "naturally" is by attacking (and, hopefully, chasing) a weak group. This is the approach I hope to utilize in the present game position. I will attack the group on the left and also, hopefully, the cutting stone :b27:. A great outcome for me would be if I could force black to live small on the left side or to force black to run with that group into the center while I build influence around it on both sides.

For my :w28: move, I also had the choice to play the following.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I rejected this choice because, although I could attack Black on the left side more severely, the cutting group :b27: would become significantly stronger than at present (which would also significantly reduce the aji from my two stones at the top) and so would make the cutting group almost impervious to attack.

Given that I did not play at G13, Black needs to decide if he can afford to play there himself or if he has to defend on the left side, first. Stated differently, if Black plays G13 next, will I be forced to connect at F13 or will I be able to hane at E11 with profit?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . a 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #33 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:35 am 
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I had forgotten this altogether in meantime. Good that the forum send a notification of your message. :-) I'll try to get back to this, need to collect my thoughts first though.


This post by TIM82 was liked by: The Intrepid
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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #34 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:32 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: EGF 1 dan
Universal go server handle: TIM82
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have to admit I have no idea what Plans I may have had. Really dont want to give the point a took with :b29: to white though, and I think it should be possible to handle the left side after following expected exchange, although it does not look pretty

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . 3 2 9 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , a . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #35 Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:01 am 
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I'll need to think here some more. By the way, feel free to view follow my other "Takemiya" game at will. :)
I probably have to connect. The hane, although very complicated, probably doesn't quite work, but I'll double-check.

On an unrelated issue, I briefly looked through the earlier moves in the game, and I don't agree with my 18 move anymore. I should have pincerred then, gotten a stable group, and sought to enlarge the moyo on the left/bottom from there. Oh well, past is the past.

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #36 Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:11 am 
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Maybe I can hane at E11 after all. :study: :study: :study:

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #37 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:21 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I haned, I could not see how to keep my position together after the following sequence, and so the move in the game was forced.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X 5 4 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . 6 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #38 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:51 am 
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Universal go server handle: TIM82
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ --------------------------------------
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . , . X . . . , . . . . . , X . .|
$$ |. O . O . X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .|
$$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Post #39 Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:50 pm 
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Given Black's move, the question becomes: how severely can I attack the Black group on the left? I definitely shouldn't be able to kill it. Instead, my goal will be to force it to either run into the center or seek small confined life on the left edge. Ideally, I'll be able to do this in sente, such that I get the chance to play first in the top right corner.

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