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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #221 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:26 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O 4 . O 9 X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . . X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 3 X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 7 X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O 6 . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


Sorry - I forgot about this game for a bit...

Change of plan! I originally intended to block, but it doesn't actually seem to be sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 X O X . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X X . O 2 . X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | 0 8 . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 3 6 . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | 4 X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


Black lives here, which means I am in trouble in the centre.

With the game move, black blocking is big, but I have a nice empty triangle reply:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O O . 5 . 7 . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O 1 X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 3 2 X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


The 2-3 exchange removes a connection for me. Then 4 is big, but 6 threatend the connection again. Black gets very thin if he stops the connection - fixing the centre is prudent. Then 7 links up with ko (unconditionally if I can get a forcing move in at a first.

I contemplated moving in the centre instead of linking, but that's quite hairy as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 8 . X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 3 O X 4 . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . 2 1 5 O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . 6 O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O 7 O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


I am close to collapse here. So I seem to have little choice but to connect.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #222 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:45 am 
Judan
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drmwc wrote:
...
Sorry - I forgot about this game for a bit...


It's cool. I was afraid that you had gotten stuck in the mud while attempting some UK dive with 3cm visibility.. :lol:

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'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius

This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: drmwc
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #223 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:01 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O 4 . O 9 X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . 0 X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 2 O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 3 X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . 7 X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O 6 . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


For observers:
If I get the cut at G16, he has two iffy groups. I assume that he made the indirect connection in an attempt to protect his eye space.

He threatens the obvious H18, connecting all of his groups and making territory. So my play is forced.


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


For observers:
The trigger move secures life permanently for my group, and gets enough territory to put him back in the position such that he must kill something to win.

My center group has five possibilities for life:

1) Make a connection southward
2) Connect at E18
3) Connect to M17
4) Get a second eye on the upper side while threatening #2 and #3.
5) Get a second eye at N9

He can't stop them all, so I'm looking good here.

_________________
'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius
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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #224 Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:56 pm 
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3 cm visibility? That would actually not be too bad compared to some dives I've done...I'm jumping into a muddy puddle this weekend.

Sometimes, though, it all makes sense:
http://vimeo.com/78209843

Anyway, trigger accepted. My move will follow.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


My first thought was empty triangle saving 3 stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]



Maybe Joaz will descend next. That threatens a connection. However, I'll play in the centre to heat up the position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 1 . 2 . 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O 8 X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O 9 O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 5 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . 4 3 7 O O . . . . . |
$$ | . W . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


I get to attack the remaining half group. I'm not completely alive myself, but the fight is at least plausible.

But if Joaz connects in the centre, I need to play ko to link my bits:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . 1 . 3 4 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


However, I may need to keep this in reserve. Joaz can play normal moves as ko threats, which could leave me well behind.

So now I am coming round to cutting in the centre with my next move. e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . B 6 5 7 O O . . . . . |
$$ | . W . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


At this point, the position is quite hot. My group isn't alive, but Joaz has 2 groups without eyes. I may have miai of the marked moves next.

I get slightly bad shape with the particular cut shown. The marked black stone being sente is annoying as it gains eye shape. So maybe I can start with 3 at 5 above.

It's complex, so I will give the matter some thought.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #225 Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:55 pm 
Judan
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BUMP

Either he did get stuck in some British mud puddle, or he realized that he cannot kill my center group.
I'm not sure which is worse. :lol:

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Offline ez4u
 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #226 Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:59 am 
Oza
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BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? This game began on Feb. 26 last year. :)

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- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #227 Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 am 
Judan
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ez4u wrote:
BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? ...


I think that we have set that record. :D

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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #228 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:36 am 
Oza

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
ez4u wrote:
BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? ...


I think that we have set that record. :D


I think you have us beat by two days... my ongoing game with Tim82 started on the 28th.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #229 Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:46 am 
Honinbo

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I guess white's best chance is to try to kill the black center group.

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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #230 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:00 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #231 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:37 am 
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Bump! :) (This is slightly cheeky, given the speed of my play in this game...)
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Offline bayu
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #232 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:37 am 
Lives with ko

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Oops, the handle of my axe is halfway rotten :o

Keep going, kibitzers are still lurking.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #233 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:54 am 
Judan
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drmwc wrote:
Bump! ...


Uhhh...am I black or white? It's been a long time...

For observers:
I'm black, of course. :razz:

If I save my center group, I'm irrevocably ahead.

My general plan is to play something around the shaded area, with three possible threats:
1) Starting a liberties race of his K16 group vs my center group, which I believe I win.
2) Connecting my center group to my upper right group
3) Covering the cut at M10 so that 6 is a connection southward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . ? ? . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O ? ? . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X W . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 7 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X 6 . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #234 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:33 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


For reasons mentioned in my previous post.

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #235 Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:39 pm 
Judan

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l7? If black then plays another move against k16 group then can white kill the whole bottom left? It's a lot bigger. And if black answers white could m18 or o13.
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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #236 Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:21 pm 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


I must keep black separated. B6 looks quite strong against the big bit of group - I can abandon my littler group if I get the big one.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #237 Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:42 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . 6 . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


It's gonna get bloody soon. :rambo:

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'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #238 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:39 am 
Judan

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I'm not so sure drmwc can kill with b6, particularly as he played L9 rather than L7 and that means black has more potential for an eye around k/L6. I wonder if Joaz has even worried about the life of his group, from his comments it seems not, but I shouldn't ask him about that yet in case drmwc wants to keep that dagger up his sleeve and poke around in the centre a bit first before showing his true intentions.

Here's one possible variation I looked at to show how L9 is less good at killing. There are many branching possibilies, this is just to show the gist. In some ways it would actually have been nice if white could have got L7 and persuaded black to cut at K7 because then white could have got the j7 atari for k6 extend exchange which reduces black's eyeshape a lot.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm107
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 8 X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . 0 O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O 4 6 O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . 3 5 O 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm117
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O 9 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 8 O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 2 . 0 . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 3 X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O 5 6 4 X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . 7 . X O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O 1 O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm127
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . X O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X . X . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . 2 1 . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . X O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O O O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


White could see if any moves on the outside, such as m9 or m8, alter the life and death of the group below (e.g. does it allow m6 to be at l6) and if so see if he can find a way to get such a move in sente by making black capture the upper middle group, and then go for the kill.
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Offline drmwc
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #239 Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:55 am 
Lives in gote
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I believe I can live withe the littler group now. I will leave this in reserve.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . 1 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . 3 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 7 X 8 . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O 5 6 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . 0 . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . 2 1 . . 3 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O 5 X 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . O X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O O X X . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O O X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . X . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


The sequence shown is the best for me of the possible options - black should resist more strongly. If this were to happen, black would have two weak groups in the centre. For example, a better option for black may be this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 2 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]


Black lives, and saving my group in gote is unappealing. Having said all this, I think there's a reasonable chance the first tow diagrams may appear if I take this line. Should I assume mu opponent will make a mistake if I meander down that route?

I prefer not to, so my move will attack the other black bit. It can just about live, but if I can get some sente move in the centre, the options above become stronger.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Post #240 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:20 pm 
Judan
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Bump

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