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Post #81 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:48 pm 
Honinbo
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Fix the cut?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 2 . O O . . 1 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #82 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:41 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


i would love to play a large point here. But I need to fix the cuts everywhere. This seems to threaten an attack on the right side. So maybe I can still get sente. But I hate to give black a thank you move. This only makes the side harder to get into.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #83 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:35 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like my opponent's move was sort of wishy-washy.

Yes, it basically defends the cut by serving as a ladder breaker. Yes, it threatens to surround my corner. But it really does neither. I'll have a number of possible forcing moves to threaten the cut again and, with this one move, I not only get my corner out, but I am now going to be building 4th line territory on the right if white decides to push from behind to get a wall.

I might be concerned about giving white a wall here, but I already have my group stabbing into the center. It is not totally alive yet, but I have two eyes in gote if I want them and still have plenty of space to move around. It is just something I need to remember to keep an eye on.

I will also want to grab sente to extend from my upper corner soon to prevent white from pressing me down there and limiting my ability to develop the right.

Basically, I question whether white will get more in the center than I'll get on the right considering my stone is on the forth line and ahead of his.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Can white really build the center that much?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . a , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . |
$$ | . . O O B . B . b . . . . . 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . B . O B . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . O O . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . B , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B O . . O X X X . X O O . B B . . |
$$ | . B O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

Seems like after this white needs both 'a' and 'b' to try to build the center; his potential there is already being limited by my groups on either side.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #84 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


im slipping behind. I need to play strongly up top.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #85 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:20 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Sticking to the plan. Pushing from behind here seems necessary for white, but it doesn't seem good.

Fun fact: They call the forth line the "line of victory" when you are making points there. Hopefully this result will help lead me to victory.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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Post #86 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:20 am 
Honinbo
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The exchange :w46: - :b47: is probably good for B. (If so, then W should not have done it.)

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #87 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:25 am 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 8 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #88 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:03 am 
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[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 8 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


This was a tough move to decide on. On the one hand I want to play high to build my potential on the right. On the other hand, playing low helps against potential invasions. My thought is that, if white invades now, he'll have two weak stones, which could become two weak groups, which is bad.

I feel that I have a lot of good choices for my next move. If white defends his approach stone I can invade the corner to prevent a double wing. If white encloses his corner I can attack his stone. I also have the turn at P12. Lots of good things for me to do.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #89 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:36 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . 8 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 0 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . 2 1 . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


I need to play a strong game from here on our. But I can't go into panic mode and fight too much and over extend. I need to keep out of panic mode. I think I'll see a move up top near the left corner.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #90 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:49 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry this move took so long. I've been a bit busy the last couple of days.

I don't want white to get an enclosure here. That would make the top and left side quite easy. I figure the best way to prevent that is to take this move. After all: "your opponent's best move is your best move."

From here, I think white can pincer or press me down. I think either is fine for him and I think either way I can get a decent result here. All I want to do is limit white's potential. I feel like I'm ahead right now, so I think all I have to do is limit white's potential to win. At some point this weekend I'll count things up and post what I think the score is.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #91 Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


i chose the two space high pincer to give it a better relationship with my
four stones. As opposed to the Taisha or low pincers that have awkward shape.

Click Here To Hide Diagram Code
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . b a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


The marked moves feel like they have awkward shape.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #92 Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:48 pm 
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Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Huh. I'll admit I'm surprised by this move. I've never actually had it played against me. I know it is a real move, but it always struck me as a strange idea. Why play so far away? Why not go down to the third line to pincer the stone? I think I get it here, though. :w52: seems to help his group on the left while applying pressure to my stone.

I feel like I only had two options for this next move. (I did consider a 2-3 move to just live in the corner, but that feels so passive and not necessary when I look at how open this board is. I also believe I can tenuki from this, but I don't see anything bigger on the board.) It seems that either I come out via a taisha-like attachment or I come out with a solid diagonal. What I like about the move I picked is that it doesn't encourage white to strengthen either side. Both sides have weaknesses that I feel I can exploit, so this move seems to give me the most options. On the downside, it lets my opponent pick the direction of play for the next few moves.

What I did not like about the attachment is I could do after the outside hane. I'd assume my opponent wouldn't wedge into a psuedo-taisha, so this would probably be the result. After this I have moves at 'a', 'b', and 'c' and none looks that amazing to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Other option
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a 6 O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , 3 4 . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . c . 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


So the choice belongs to my opponent. Which side does he help? I will then attack the other side. If he helps the top I will pincer on the left, if he helps the left I will pincer on the top.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #93 Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:21 pm 
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E15 attachment. Explanation to come later if I have time.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #94 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Posts: 773
Location: Michigan, USA
Liked others: 143
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Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Didn't think Hades12 would attach on the outside because his stones are quite thin, but I guess I was wrong.

This seems like the only move. I would prefer to wedge on the other side first, but that stone will be ataried right away. Instead, I cut on this side. I expect he will crosscut and then I can wedge. After that I hope to capture the 3-5 stone and take a big corner. We'll see what happens.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #95 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:38 pm 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , 4 6 . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Unappetizing for White.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


Not good for White, either. Broken shape, as Ed Lee says.

:w54: is the culprit.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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Post #96 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:25 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Unappetizing for White.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . # W W . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . # # . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
( For beginners. ) Highlighted the bad shape -- broken shape for White -- pointed out by Bill.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #97 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:51 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


this seems like the only continuation to keep both sides. But feels like it will leave a lot of aji.

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #98 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners - :black: :white:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


If I have another move I don't know what it is. This gives him broken shape. He's now split apart. And I'm out of the corner. Don't see how any of that is bad.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

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Post #99 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:00 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm54
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]
( For beginners. ) In Bill's variation above, :w58: is very big. (It's also a very big shared vital point).

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 Post subject: Re: #233 moyoaji vs. Hades12
Post #100 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners -
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , O . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 6 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . . O . O X O O . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O X X X . X O O . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X . . . . X X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]


made points on the side and top so now I need reduce the right side

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