Go Back - Game 2

Post Reply
Tryss
Lives in gote
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Rank: KGS 2k
GD Posts: 100
KGS: Tryss
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 154 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Tryss »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Logical (and simple) following.

White can always tenuki, but I don't see the point of 22 then
Top
User avatar
Loons
Gosei
Posts: 1378
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:17 am
GD Posts: 0
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Loons »

I like our reasoning for the last couple white moves - tenuki should come at natural breakpoints.

As black, we could have thought about a more moving-out oriented variation on :b21: . I believe :b23: C10 bump can also be played (my enemy's point...). I wouldn't tenuki now as black, anyway, though I'm not sure what the best move is to make shape... we seem kind of lumpy right now. Can we jump out ahead of white?
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
Top
User avatar
nagano
Lives in gote
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:44 pm
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by nagano »

Tryss wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Logical (and simple) following.

White can always tenuki, but I don't see the point of 22 then
Too slow. I think the best move here is the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
This was the plan before :w22:.
Some background on this shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 5 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Too submissive and overconcentrated for black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 7 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Again too submissive, and white even gets sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 8 0 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 2 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
:b29: at :w22:

This is the usual sequence.
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
Top
User avatar
nagano
Lives in gote
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:44 pm
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by nagano »

Just reviewed this game between Gu Li and Iyama Yuta, which reminded me that :b21: is often better placed here, as I think it is in this case; but I will leave it to others to decide weather to go back or not.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
Top
User avatar
nagano
Lives in gote
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:44 pm
Rank: Tygem 4d
GD Posts: 24
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 34 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by nagano »

Anyone?
"Those who calculate greatly will win; those who calculate only a little will lose, but what of those who don't make any calculations at all!? This is why everything must be calculated, in order to foresee victory and defeat."-The Art of War
Top
Mr. Mormon
Dies with sente
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:44 am
GD Posts: 0
KGS: MrMormon
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Mr. Mormon »

Go Back is turning out to be horrendously slow on L19 and practically dead on SL. But Go Back is on the upcoming Kaya Go Server's (http://kaya.gs) ideas page (http://kaya.uservoice.com), so go vote and/or make a comment!
Top
User avatar
oren
Oza
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
Location: Seattle, WA
Has thanked: 251 times
Been thanked: 549 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by oren »

Mr. Mormon wrote:Go Back is turning out to be horrendously slow on L19 and practically dead on SL. But Go Back is on the upcoming Kaya Go Server's (http://kaya.gs) ideas page (http://kaya.uservoice.com), so go vote and/or make a comment!
Maybe there's a reason for this? I don't think third time is going to be a charm here.
Top
Mr. Mormon
Dies with sente
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:44 am
GD Posts: 0
KGS: MrMormon
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Mr. Mormon »

People don't usually go to forums and wikis to play Go. In fact, many if not most players don't go to either at all.
Top
User avatar
oren
Oza
Posts: 2777
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: oren
Tygem: oren740, orenl
IGS: oren
Wbaduk: oren
Location: Seattle, WA
Has thanked: 251 times
Been thanked: 549 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by oren »

Mr. Mormon wrote:People don't usually go to forums and wikis to play Go. In fact, many if not most players don't go to either at all.
People also don't play games where anybody that wants to can take undos forever. The game will never finish.
Top
Mr. Mormon
Dies with sente
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:44 am
GD Posts: 0
KGS: MrMormon
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Mr. Mormon »

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on whether the medium of play or the nature of the game has been a bigger factor. Why don't we find out? :)
Top
Mr. Mormon
Dies with sente
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:44 am
GD Posts: 0
KGS: MrMormon
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Go Back - Game 2

Post by Mr. Mormon »

Lack of activity = :sad: .
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Other versions of turn-based games”