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Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1010		 Page 3 of 4
Author:  Zwergesel [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Argh, that's great timing for your hidden move :D

I don't think you get points for capturing. They're deducted from my score, aren't they? Anyway, that's what I did, so the captured stones were counted twice now!

I haven't thought about my next move yet. I'm probably going to use the scan to check one of the obvious locations (but I suspect you didn't play at any obvious place, right? ;) )
Author:  freegame [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Quote:
I don't think you get points for capturing. They're deducted from my score, aren't they? Anyway, that's what I did, so the captured stones were counted twice now!


ahhh, I see. I only counted my own points :oops: and did not look at what you did with your own points. Sorry.

a scan costs 2 points.
Author:  Zwergesel [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O B . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


The only immediately dangerous places where his hidden move could be are here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:18
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . C . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . C X O C . . . . . . |
$$ | C X X O X X . . m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


If I capture the two white stones, then my group is safe. The move I played should take care of all hidden moves in this area that I can think of.
I'm pretty sure that he didn't play any of the marked points, because it would be obvious, but I can't take any risk here. If he actually played there and I don't answer, it's "game over" immediately.
Author:  freegame [ Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:14
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . W X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


He defended the top left. Not doing so would have been a big risk, and with the 3 different options I had to kill him there a scan would not have helped to determine if I did play my hidden move there.

Anyway. My hidden move was not in the top left. Black waisted a move at the top left, giving me two moves on the right side, one of which he can not see. Seems like I got exactly what I wanted.

Next how to use the (fear of) the hidden move:
Now I'm going to play some overplays, using the fear of my hidden move to get a good result at the top right.
after :w2: he will hopefully think that my hidden move is at a or at the minus point. This would mean he can not play b.
But will most likely play at a himself.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . a . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X 2 1 m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . b W X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . c . . . |[/go]


In fact my hidden move is not at a, the minus point, or b for that matter. Therefore this is a big bluff. If he does cut and play at b I will be forced to pull back with c and lose quite some points. However it is no disaster and there is a lot of aji and fear left in the top right this way. Therefore I think it's worth the risk. It is fun too :D

I'm hoping for the following result. but that is a big guess.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:13
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X W B m 7 . |
$$ | X O X X O . 5 W X 3 . |
$$ | . O O X O . . 6 2 4 . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |[/go]


After :b7: I do need to play the right side plus point soon, because it will be double sente.
Author:  Zwergesel [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:14
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . B m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Natural move, imho. I don't know which traps he has laid out for me, but I'll certainly find out soon. I still don't know when to use my hidden move for maximum effect :/
Author:  freegame [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:15
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X W X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

as previously explained...
(keeping my fingers crossed, and hope he falls for the trick)
Author:  Zwergesel [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:5, W:15
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . B O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I guess his hidden move is somewhere around here, at a or b maybe, or at the point that I just played.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:15
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . a . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X b . . |
$$ | X O X X O . B O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

I don't know, but I don't think wasting a scan here will help. If he captures one stone now, I'm not in big trouble as far as I can see. He'll ruin some of my corner territory, but that's okay as a trade for revealing his hidden stone. He'll have to play on the minus zone too...
Author:  freegame [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:5, W:16
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . W . . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


:-( too bad. now i need to defend this stone to avoid giving away a ponuki in the center
Author:  Zwergesel [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Wow, it's been almost a month since my last move.
Sorry that I let you wait again.
Lately I haven't really been in the mood for playing Go for some reason. :-?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:6, W:16
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . O B . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  freegame [ Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:6, W:17
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . W . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I don't really know what was going on. but extending here seems very big.
it creates a lot of aji.

expected variation:
If black does not play 1 I can safe my two stones at the top which is big.
after 4 there is a lot of aji in the corner and black most likely has to play something like 5

this way I get sente to play on the bottom
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:6, W:17
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . W 3 . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m 5 . |
$$ | X O X X O 7 X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . 1 O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , 6 2 4 . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  Zwergesel [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:7, W:17
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O B . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I don't know where his hidden stone is and if I weren't behind I would have used a scan now to check J10. Because that would really hurt my group. But since J10 seems like a weird place for his hidden stone, I'm just going to play naturally and wait for his response.

I might try to play this sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:7, W:17
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O B . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O 5 X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . 3 O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . 4 . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  freegame [ Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:7, W:18
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . W O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


this might be slightly better for black then my previous thought

now I expect the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:7, W:17
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O 1 X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O a W O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . 2 3 p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

the right plus point would be sente now for me and when
the liberty at a is gone the top plus point is sente too

My hidden move is still in the game so that might be interesting.
So fas however, black is playing like it is not there at all :sad:
I had hoped he would play more cautiously.
Author:  Zwergesel [ Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:8, W:18
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O . X O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . B . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  freegame [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:7, W:19
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O W . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


capturing this seems huge. Now the top plus point is sente for me as well.
I'm quite confident now that I will win this game.
Author:  Zwergesel [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:8, W:19
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . B . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Risky, but I don't want to waste points. If I capture the two stones now, because I'm afraid of his hidden move, then I will lose by a few points according to my count.
Author:  freegame [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:8, W:25
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


wow. I expected him to play the top plus point. that would get him 5 extra points and I would not be able to play H11 endgame anymore. the difference would be around 13 points. I do not think the move he made now is 13 points. As a bonus I also get to keep sente. If he ignores yet again his whole corner dies.

the score is 8-25 so far. black needs to win by more than 17 points on the board now. That looks very very hard.

assuming he does defend now, I expect the following:
I have the option to play at a now. forcing him to play the minus zone, or lose some stones.
I can also exploit my hidden move,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:8, W:25
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . 1 . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X a . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  Zwergesel [ Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:9, W:23
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Gotta capture now or else:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:9, W:23
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . 1 . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X W X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Author:  freegame [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:9, W:24
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . W X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X . . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


I decided to leave the top right for now, and first see what I can do in the bottom right.

after the the risk of my hidden move being discovered is getting bigger and bigger, but I hope to be able to get an advantage with it and avoid having to give black the whole bottom right of the board.
Author:  Zwergesel [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:10, W:24
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X B . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Naturally! Although I'm still wondering where his hidden move might be...
Author:  freegame [ Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:10, W:25
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m . . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . . . p |
$$ | O . . . O . . W X . . |
$$ | . O . O . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . X X . m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Game Over
My hidden move is at the marked place.
Even if he does know, he can't safe the game anymore.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:10, W:25
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X . X X O X m 6 . |
$$ | X O X X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . O O X O . O O X . . |
$$ | X O . O O , . . 2 4 p |
$$ | O . . . O . . W X 3 . |
$$ | . O . O . . O X P 5 . |
$$ | . . O O . X X 1 m . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]

This way the top dies. If he wants to safe the top, the bottom will die.
Even if he uses his hidden move in a miraculous way and manages to get everything alive, he will be left with only a few points. Being behind already this will just give white the victory with a little less points than if one of the black groups dies.


I expect a resignation soon.

after that rather arrogant "analysis" in the other hide tag I really hope that I did not overlook something stupid. (would not be the first time that happened) :lol:
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