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Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3948
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Author:  Shaddy [ Tue May 31, 2011 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My strategy here will be to make as many complications as possible in the limited space I have. I only have to live in one place, so I figure if I have five groups floating around, Magicwand won't have time to kill all of them :blackeye:. So in any situation, if I can cut, I'll cut. If I can't cut, I'll still cut.

Author:  Magicwand [ Tue May 31, 2011 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this should be intresting :) but i think i know what is waiting at the end...

Author:  EdLee [ Tue May 31, 2011 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

I think B kills. :twisted:

Author:  hyperpape [ Tue May 31, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

I have my chair and my beer. But y'all should play a double game for the sake of science.

Author:  Shaddy [ Tue May 31, 2011 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X 3 . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  mw42 [ Tue May 31, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

The ladder works for black.

Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Tue May 31, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

I think Shaddy plays some variation of the killing game quite often. On KGS he's said he's even played it multiple times with Feng Yun 9p.

I still think Magicwand will win. I think Magicwand is stronger than Shaddy, and from my (limited) experience with this game I think it is easier for black than white. If Magicwand kills, it'd be interesting to see them change sides and see Magicwand attempt to live.

Author:  Magicwand [ Tue May 31, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:)

Author:  Shaddy [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Oh man, he wants to cut already? Here we go!

Author:  Mnemonic [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

I must confess that I've never seen this game between two dan players, but I have watched strong kyu players and white always finds life somehow. So my prediction: white will life, but it will take over 100 moves.

btw: this is probably the "standard" opening
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 5 . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Mnemonic wrote:
... So my prediction: white will live, but it will take over 100 moves...


My money is on MW: Shaddy resigns in less than 100.

Author:  Magicwand [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . 6 . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Shaddy [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Connecting looks good, right? In a game, who wouldn't play it instinctively without a thought, because black's shape gets broken and you get all connected? But that's exactly what he wants. If I connected, black would m11 and then white has a lump that can't do anything meaningful to k8 or m10.

Author:  Tryphon [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Be careful, ladder doesn't work !!!

Author:  Shaddy [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Oh no, I misread it! :o

Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . 8 . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Author:  Mnemonic [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

@Magicwand
Could you please explain your choice of :b8: ? If your reason is "random chance" I would perfectly understand. I personally do not see any difference between :b8: and H9. But if you do I would really like to hear your explanation :mrgreen:

Author:  Shaddy [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . 9 . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . X . X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Free moves!

Author:  Magicwand [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . X 0 X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




Mnemonic wrote:
@Magicwand
Could you please explain your choice of :b8: ? If your reason is "random chance" I would perfectly understand. I personally do not see any difference between :b8: and H9. But if you do I would really like to hear your explanation :mrgreen:

simple. since i have one peeping stone on top, his bottome white is stronger than top. so i renforce bottom instead of top.

Author:  Shaddy [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killovitch 1: Magicwand vs. Shaddy

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11 Can white still make a living group?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . 1 O . X . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . X X X O . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm 60% sure this is sente.

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