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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #21 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:11 am 
Tengen
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Make them heavy. Lock them in.
But someone has to remember to go back and patch up K17.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #22 Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:01 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O W . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There is no other move here. If you let Black capture the stone and get the ponnuki, Black will be thick and have no weaknesses at the top. Meanwhile, White would be cut up like fish and it would be a bitter situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #23 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:16 am 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 256
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . B X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only move. I thought that usually the atari at L15 is best not played, but to connect here directly.

For the benefit of weaker players, I also explain why this is the only move. The key thing to note is that we should not allow white to settle down too comfortably.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . 3 2 X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Connecting at the outer side allows white to capture a stone and settle easily.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 3 X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 2 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Descending towards the third line allows white to make shape easily.

_________________
My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.


Last edited by unkx80 on Sun May 16, 2010 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #24 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:23 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . W . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Settling the top is urgent. If we play elsewhere:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White has a heavy group without a base, so a move into settling at the corner is necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #25 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:42 pm 
Honinbo

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Edit: Unhidden.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . 6 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With White strengthened on top, I was thinking about getting frisky with a double approach. Is :w1: an overplay? :b2: - :b6: is a solid response, I think.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


Last edited by Bill Spight on Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #26 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:57 pm 
Lives in gote

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A question to white players:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was wondering if white could justify playing this and, if receiving an answer in the corner, then pincering (so the top group would have more eyespace). Is this just aji keshi, or would Bill's sequence be better if white wants to pincer at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #27 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:31 pm 
Tengen
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No point in hiding this, as it is in the past:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


unkx80 wrote:
... I thought that usually the atari at L15 is best not played, but to connect here directly.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . B X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I felt that white really wanted L15:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 1 X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...but I wasn't really sure. Any explanations for why K17 might be better?

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #28 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:02 pm 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Anything else seems too passive to me.

_________________
it's be happy, not achieve happiness

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Post #29 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:44 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't let myself be intimidated by the ranks fo the other players, this is a game for everybody.

Time to start making some shape for eyes. I really wanted to play P16, but this seems safer.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O 4 O B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 5 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


While this would probably work, it would feel less satisfying. There's a difference between playing lightly and just sacrificing things, and this seems closer to the latter. The move I chose gives decent eyespace and threatens a not too unreasonable cut in the corner.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #30 Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:10 pm 
Honinbo

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Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't let myself be intimidated by the ranks fo the other players, this is a game for everybody.


Absolutely. That's the right attitude. :)

Quote:
Time to start making some shape for eyes. I really wanted to play P16, but this seems safer.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O 4 O B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 5 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


While this would probably work, it would feel less satisfying. There's a difference between playing lightly and just sacrificing things, and this seems closer to the latter. The move I chose gives decent eyespace and threatens a not too unreasonable cut in the corner.


Edit: Unhidden.

In tournament contract bridge there is often a mismatch in strength between partners. We say that the stronger player carries the weaker. There is nothing wrong with that, that's how it is. I appreciate the thought that you put into this play, and I mean no reflection it, one way or another. But let me encourage a carefree attitude. Sit back and enjoy the ride. You do not have to carry us. :)

You made a considered play, and that is good. But it would also be fine to make a play because you really want to make it. Nobody is going to jump on you for doing so. We do not expect perfection. We are carrying you. :)

We all play within our limitations. It may well be that the best play is one that takes you into unfamiliar territory that would give you trouble. That's why you have partners. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


Last edited by Bill Spight on Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, Joaz Banbeck
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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #31 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:32 am 
Lives with ko
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I was hoping someone else will make this move, but it seems that nobody is going to make this move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X B . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am surprised that white didn't cut or double hane in the last move.

Since white played the submissive move of descending, black will connect. This is the only move I think, and I feel that letting white cut is unacceptable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O W . 9 7 X 2 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 0 8 6 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also considered this :b1:, but white can form a wall by sacrificing with :w2: and :w4:, followed by pressing black as shown. Notice how the :wc: stone comes into play. I feel that this result is inferior for black than simply connecting.

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Post #32 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:17 am 
Lives with ko
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I made that comment offhand without much thinking. Now that Joaz asked this very good question, I have the burden to think about it to properly answer it. And then the differences aren't very big, sometimes quite subtle.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 1 X O . O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I recommended the connection at :b1:. :w2: may extend, but then :b3: and :b5: is an acceptable attack.

Of course, :w2: may see the double hane as a kikashi and tenuki, e.g., by playing the double approach against the corner. However, it does feel that white is missing a move around :w2:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 3 X O . O . 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O 2 . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . a 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The atari at :b1: goes against the 1-2-3 principle, and leaves behind a cutting point at a that may be exploited later.

Also, the existence of :w2: makes the white group strong. It has some profound effects against the corner when white cuts at :w4: and :w6:. I have yet to figure out the best black response against :w6:, but black will have an easier if white cuts without having the :w2: stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O 9 O X 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . 7 X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X 2 . . 0 6 8 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here is one imagined sequence, which isn't possible if white had not connected. I didn't read all variations though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc (5 at marked stone)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O 1 W X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . 2 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . 6 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here is another imagined sequence.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #33 Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 7:03 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The normal move in place of our last move would have been the double-hane. I am not strong enough to say if it would have been the best in this situation though. Either way, we must make our group strong. Strong is not the same as alive. If black can profit wildly by playing all kinds of moves that force us into a submissive life or force us to run for our lives, than we were not strong. Black would be profiting wildly in sente while we made minimum points. This is why the proverb "Urgent points before big points" is important - big points are often gote, but neglecting urgent points gets the opponent a ton of points in sente.

Anyway, this move is a pretty vital point for both sides, and black is practically forced to respond. I was originally going to play the move below instead, but my intuition says that this vital point is vital and that we can always go back to the move below to gouge out some of the corner and improve our eye shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O W . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why is my move a good move for black? Well, beside from ruining our eye shape in a running fight, if I play elsewhere, thinking we're strong, and then we play elsewhere again, saying "Can't let black profit in sente from his move", this is one possibility.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 4 O 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O 8 O 3 O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . 1 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Painful
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O O O X O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #34 Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:44 pm 
Tengen
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I think that everybody above 15K understands that there is going to be pushing and shoving here: white trying to get out, and black trying to preserve right side territory as white goes past. So I'm not hiding any of this.
( BTW, I'm not trying to hack Dusk Eagle, I just thought that this was a good opportunity to show beginners what tewari analysis looks like. )

After white's most recent, it will almost certainly look like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


Let's do some tewari analysis on the above diagram. Let's take out the marked stone, and pretend that we are allowing white to put it anywhere that he wants:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . C X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


Now, does white really want that stone to be at the circled point? Or would white rather have it as shown below?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . W 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


My conclusion is that the most recent white move should have been like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


...probably leading to something like this where the cut at 'a' starts becoming interesting.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . a X . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: tezza
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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #35 Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:22 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #36 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 1:58 pm 
Gosei
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Joaz's move definitely seems better to me :D . I shouldn't have overlooked that move.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #37 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:00 pm 
Gosei
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Your move is the sort I would have played instinctively, I never would have considered Joaz's, not for a minute. Obviously, I really need to work on looking for this sort of thing. Thanks, Joaz.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #38 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:58 pm 
Tengen
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Not this Joaz? This looks more fun :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


Mainly because it deprives White of this in sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . a . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a . . 6 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]


Of course, White's pushing from behind on the 6th line (!?!?) but anything else is risking Black sealing White in - isn't that more unpleasant with Black's framework potential, and therefore aiming to be able to get "a" worth it? Black I think should play more sharply if he can to prevent this.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #39 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:03 pm 
Tengen
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topazg wrote:
Not this Joaz? This looks more fun :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . W X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |[/go]

...


I thought about it, but the resulting black position felt too weak.

If there were black stones at either of the marked positions, or at the lower right star point, I might be in favor of it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O C . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is a tough one to call. I may be paranoid.

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 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #40 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 2:51 am 
Lives with ko
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How come you guys are discussing moves that haven't been played so openly?

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