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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #41 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:03 am 
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[go]$$cm31 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . 4 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . 4 . 6 O 2 . . . |
$$ | O . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X . 7 |
$$ | 8 . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . 9 . . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . 2 . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
It's certainly getting complicated now ... lots of no-go spots for both of us.

This is what I call the avalanche point, where one of us, probably me in this case, will create a minor onslaught. I have to make as much hay of the onslaught as I can. A dismal avalanche does more harm than good.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #42 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:16 am 
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[go]$$cm31 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . 4 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . 4 . 6 O 2 . . . |
$$ | O . 0 . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X . 7 |
$$ | 8 . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . 9 . . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . 2 . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Well, it's certainly getting there now ... :S

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #43 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:54 am 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X . X |
$$ | O . . . . O . . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X . . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
Well, it's certainly getting there now ... :S

You ran out of space slightly ahead of me, because you're overpopulated. Early on you had a lot more space remaining than I did. But since you killed everything I put in front of you, I was able to turn that around, just barely.

Also G6 is bad for you but not me, again probably due to your overpopulation. I'd say don't be so killy, but some killy people succeed. You just have to work out your own style.

Btw, you'd have had the game in the bag if you'd moved F9 on turn 36. Not that it's game over now. You could definitely still win. But it would have demonstrated that unbridled aggression can work (as well as demonstrating me making kind of a bad move right before that).

In Oust, it's easy to know when you're probably going to lose, but hard to know when you're definitely going to lose. It's truly a game of comebacks - more the exception than the rule, but they do happen. And that's why losing at Oust is so punishing. You have to hang in there with "nerves of steel" and take the beating or else take ridicule for being a sissy. In the latter case, I just type a quick "cya" and beat a hasty departure. Not to suggest that resigning makes one a sissy. I'm just remembering a time when Rod Jackson was sissifying everyone. Nobody was spared.

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Last edited by MarkSteere on Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #44 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:18 am 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X . X |
$$ | O . . . . O . . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X . . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X 2 . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Interesting, I still have a blind spot for the whole you can only capture if you're bigger than _every_ adjacent string thing ... I figure if I F9 you move up, capture it, then capture the 2 etc etc etc, but of course you have to be bigger then G8 too, and it's hard to see!

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #45 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:28 am 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X . X |
$$ | O . . . . O . . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . 3 . X . X |
$$ | O . . . . O . . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Having a guy separated from his comrades, like L9, is generally not good. It might not matter here though. You've got good setups around A11 and G11. Looking at it another way, having guys totally isolated, like A11 and G11, is usually very disadvantageous. I placed A11 just to take up your space, so you wouldn't have both A10 and B11. Same for G11. It took up a lot of your space. But those outliers are now liabilities.

What matters now is how long I can extend the avalanche - how long I can hold sente. I have to form the biggest group I can before you start building on A11 and G11.

I think square Oust may be more interesting than hex Oust in some ways, difficult to describe. I played a little square Oust, then played a whole lot of hex Oust, and now coming back to the square version, I'm seeing the differences more clearly. The way sente sometimes swings back and forth here is different from what happens in the hex version. The square version may in fact be more complex, as I think Christian suggested.

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Last edited by MarkSteere on Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #46 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:53 pm 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . C . X . X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . 4 X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Mmmm, that makes sense ... stil, this isn't getting any more straightforward...

EDIT: Made my other move, sorry! I think this is the only way I can not die pretty much everywhere

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #47 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:05 pm 
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MarkSteere wrote:
I think square Oust may be more interesting than hex Oust in some ways, difficult to describe. I played a little square Oust, then played a whole lot of hex Oust, and now coming back to the square version, I'm seeing the differences more clearly. The way sente sometimes swings back and forth here is different from what happens in the hex version. The square version may in fact be more complex, as I think Christian suggested.

I don't know if one could call it more complex, "more interesting in ways difficult to describe" actually describes it quite accurately. In fact, barring games specifically suited for the hexgrid, Y, Hex and the like, I'm more inclined to square grid implementations in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #48 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:05 pm 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . 5 |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
I think this is the only way I can not die pretty much everywhere

That was probably your best move.

Now here, if L9 were snugged in a little better with its friendly neighbors, you could go to town on G11.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #49 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:54 pm 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . 6 O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | 6 . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #50 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:10 pm 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . 6 O |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | C . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . C C |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #51 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:27 am 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | 8 . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 . X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #52 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:03 am 
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Yeah, I resign, I'm in a bind, and your big groups are already overtaking mine ... you can just force me to steadily sacrifice what I have left!

Many thanks again for the game, and congrats :)

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #53 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:28 am 
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I completely understand. I've resigned many times in similar circumstances.

But... I was hoping to demonstrate White gaining sente. Why don't we change colors, Graham, with you playing Black and me playing White? If you're agreeable to that, it's your turn, as Black.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #54 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:14 am 
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Ok, let's see what happens :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O . . X |
$$ | C . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 9 X 3 . O . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . C C . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . 9 . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 9 X 3 9 C . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . 9 . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 9 X 3 9 . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #55 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:56 am 
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[go]$$cm41 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X . . O . |
$$ | . . . O O . 0 . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . 7 |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . 7 . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X 5 X |
$$ | O . . . . O 4 . . 1 . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . 9 . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X 7 9 X 3 9 . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Hmmmm, White's in a bit of pinch at this point...

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Post #56 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:41 am 
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[go]$$cm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X 1 1 C . |
$$ | . . . O O . C 1 C . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . 1 . X |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X X X |
$$ | O . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Yeah, very much why I was wanting to resign :P

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Post #57 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:47 am 
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[go]$$cm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X 1 1 . 2 |
$$ | . . . O O . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . 1 . X |
$$ | . O . O . O O O . X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X X X |
$$ | O . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #58 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:59 am 
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[go]$$cm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X 1 1 3 C |
$$ | . . . O O . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . 3 1 . X |
$$ | . O . O . C 3 C . X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X X X |
$$ | O . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #59 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:05 am 
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[go]$$cm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X 1 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . O O . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . 3 1 . X |
$$ | . O . O . 4 3 . . X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X X X |
$$ | O . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #60 Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:20 am 
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[go]$$cm51 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . O . . X 1 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . O O . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . 5 3 1 . X |
$$ | . O . O . C 3 . . X . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . X X X |
$$ | O . . . . O O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . 5 O . . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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