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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #81 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:59 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . . . |
$$ | O . X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

...although in fairness, Graham is doing great for a beginner. Early on, everyone played with a killy style. Then someone developed the strategy of being more reserved with the violence.

Oust dynamics are far from obvious, even after you've been subjected to the abuse a few times.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #82 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:02 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | O . X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . . X |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


It seems one of my biggest concerns is trying to avoid you from connecting at J3 - something which requires tact and finesse that I don't really have :D In the meantime, I'll hope to encourage you to say hello to my bigger groups ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #83 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:07 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | O . X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 X |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

I won't win here, but if I did, it would provide an excellent demonstration of what can happen when two unevenly matched players switch colors mid-game, should anyone ever want to do that.

I think the sente drifting back and forth effect was something that used to happen early on, when everyone was killy. Now, if you can launch a pretty good avalanche, taking hostages, you've got a solid advantage. Might be about time to shift up to larger boards - 12x12 and 8x8x8.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #84 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:13 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | C 7 X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 X |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Yeah, that makes sense - it's funny how the game pans out when you have groups that are simply too small to compete with the local enemies, and you have situations where you leave them because nothing else makes sense

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #85 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:16 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 C |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . . 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #86 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:41 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O 9 . 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #87 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:16 am 
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[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . . 3 |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O C 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . 5 . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . . C |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 0 |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . C . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . X . 0 . |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 0 |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | X . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | X X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X X X . X |
$$ | . X . X X X X . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X . X . . C 0 0 . |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 0 |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | C . . . . . C C C C . |
$$ | C C C C C . . C . . . |
$$ | . . . C . . C C C . X |
$$ | . X . C C C C . 0 . . |
$$ | . 7 X . C . . . 0 0 . |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 0 |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm71 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . 7 X . . . . . 0 0 . |
$$ | 7 . X X . . . . . 2 0 |
$$ | . X X . . O O 2 2 8 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . 6 . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . 0 8 |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

This position is not unrealistic, even after the color switch between mismatched players. Occasionally sente swings do take place between evenly matched, advanced players.

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #88 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:18 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


My ... stones?? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #89 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:32 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
My ... stones?? :P

:lol: I just scraped by, the white 21 killing a black 20.
,

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #90 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:42 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]


I have a cunning plan!

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #91 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:48 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

topazg wrote:
I have a cunning plan!

Me too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
Post #92 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:53 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #93 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:01 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #94 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:01 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . 7 . . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #95 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:05 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . 7 8 . 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Juggling dragons.

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Post #96 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:17 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . 7 C . 6 . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . . . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #97 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:24 pm 
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[go]$$cm81 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . 7 . . 6 . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . . 3 . . . O |
$$ | . . . 5 . 1 . . . 2 X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . 4 |
$$ | . X X . . . 0 . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

Theoretically, no game has a larger tree than Go. Practically speaking though, considering only the portion of the tree likely to be used, Oust has a larger "practical" tree. If the boards were scaled so the two games played out with about the same number of moves, either to completion or to a reasonable resign point, there'd be more possibilities in Oust.

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Last edited by MarkSteere on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #98 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:37 pm 
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[go]$$cm91 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . X . . . O |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . O X |
$$ | . X . . 1 . . . O . O |
$$ | . X X . . . O . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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Post #99 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:40 pm 
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[go]$$cm91 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . X . . . O |
$$ | 2 . . X . X . . . O X |
$$ | . X . . 1 . . . O . O |
$$ | . X X . . . O . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

If the boards for Go and Oust were the same size, say 11x11, the distance between the practical trees of Go and Oust would be even larger (than if the board sizes were adjusted for equal game length), since capturing takes place to a much larger extent in Oust.

You wouldn't want to play Oust on a 19x19. It could take months at this rate.

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Post #100 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:27 pm 
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[go]$$cm91 Oust - Mark Steere vs Topazg
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . 3 . X . . . O |
$$ | 2 . . X . X . . . O X |
$$ | . X . . 1 . . . O . O |
$$ | . X X . . . O . O O . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X X . . O O O O O O |
$$ | . X X . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . X . . X . . O . O O |
$$ | X X X X X X . . O O . |
$$ | . X X . X . . O O . O |
$$ -----------------------[/go]

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