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 Post subject: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:41 am 
Lives in gote

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Here is a game I played recently. I actually recorded a video of my thoughts while playing which was informative for my self-review, but I'm too lazy edit to out the swearing. In general, I think that the opening went well for me, but I wasn't able to sustain that advantage through the endgame. There are definitely a few slow moves and I underestimated my opponents lower center potential.

I am playing white.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:40 pm 
Judan

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Hi, Calvin! :)

A few comments. Go to move 111.


Main focus: The endgame is fighting strength. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:17 pm 
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@Bill Spight

With respect to the game move at 112, I see your point. It's kind of a small-scale double-open skirt, so there is less value in trying to close the bottom. I guess I didn't see it that way in the game. I was doing more of a local pattern matching.

My failure to see C11 is, I think, psychological. I had previously decided (even before move 54) that the C9 and D9 stones were light and could be sacrificed, so I reminded myself for the next few moves after that not to try to defend them. Now, of course, the game changes and the circumstances change, and by the endgame I guess they become useful in a different way. So I need to be sharper in the endgame but also be willing to discard my previous evaluations. I had considered L4 for White 112, but not K5. That's clever to have the ladder breaker follow-up!

I think there is also kind a "weak player's consensus" going on, where a vital point is missed by both players because they each trust each other that it doesn't work, even if it does. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #4 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:48 pm 
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I felt kind of terrible playing this game. Getting into byoyomi around move 88 probably isn't conducive to my best play, but there are still conceptual problems I struggle with that would show in slower games. Any comments are welcome.



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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #5 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:19 pm 
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Another one, but this one is worse, and shows some of the dangers of not doing a positional judgement.

I will title this: "For the Love of Gote"


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #6 Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:43 pm 
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I seem to be lacking sufficient sharpness. I played :b1: when 'a' was still possible. Still, there are lessons to be learned in not getting into this bad situation to begin with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Where is my razor?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O . . . O O O O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X X O O . O X O X X . X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X , X X X . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 O . . . . X X X O . a O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O X . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X X X X X . |
$$ | . X X O X X . O . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . . . . . O . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . X O O . O |
$$ | . . X O O O O . O . . . O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . X X O X X O . . . . . O X . . X O |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #7 Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:26 am 
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I haven't posted in a while, but this is a special case as I played one of Kirby's opponents and got smoked. There is a catastrophic collapse to greed near the last 40 moves or so:


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #8 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:51 am 
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Some of my own thoughts on the game. It hasn't been reviewed by others yet.



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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #9 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:53 am 
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After :w1: (106 in the game), I started trying to make a profitable attack with :b2:. But after :w7:, I had some trouble evaluating the position and deciding what to do next. I feel that I had a good postion before :b2: but this was hard to handle. Ideas? Maybe I should have just backed off and played 'a' after this. At least that way I don't die. I sometimes get obsessed with attack and then the counterattack is worse.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 106 to 112
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . X . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . O X . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O X X X . . 3 . 6 . . a . . |
$$ | . . X . X X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . X O O X X O . 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X . X . O X O . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . X O . 1 . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . 5 4 . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X O O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O O . X X O . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O X O X X . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . X O O X . O . . . . . . X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #10 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:10 pm 
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In this game, I got toasted in an early fight. I think for a while I had a decent fight going, and there is always this question of whether even to allow the fight.


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Post #11 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:55 pm 
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In the game in the previous post, I had recalled one of the positions from Viktor Lin's blog where AlphGo Teach seems to recommend different lines than in a number of pro games. You can check the tool or Viktor's blog for yourself, but :b2: and :b4: aren't so hot here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 8 to 17
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 9 0 . 1 5 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Although :w7: in the next diagram was a simple variation I know, I did not like this result for white in the whole board:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black develops to comfortably on both sides
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . 3 9 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . . 1 5 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But the real carnage comes later. After I played :w1:, black cut at :b2:. I did not defend this earlier but felt that I could handle it. After black cuts at :w10: it gets a bit intense, but I'm not feeling that bad as white yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 30 to 39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . X X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 1 O O O O X 8 O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 7 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 5 9 6 X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It continues like this, but there's a question of whether :w7: would be better at :w8: instead. I played the table shape of :w7: because I thought that group needed a bit more strengthening.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 40 to 49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . X X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O O O O X X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 2 X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . 3 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 9 . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's hard to know how black will continue, but locally, it seems black may try to get out with :b2:.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W possible?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . X X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O O O O X X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . 6 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 2 7 O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 4 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here,looking back, I feel :w1: and :w3: were too much.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 60 to 62
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . X X X . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . O O O O O X X O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X O O X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X O . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . O , X O . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So was there a way to avoid this fight? Should I have avoided it? At least it was good exercise. Maybe I could have answered :bc: with :w1: instead of 'a' as in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Calmer way
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B a . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #12 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:27 pm 
Judan

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Calvin Clark wrote:
Maybe I could have answered :bc: with :w1: instead of 'a' as in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Calmer way
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B a . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 1 X X X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O O O X . O O X # . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It may not look that way, but given the presence of :bs: :w1: is bigger than "a". "a" does not secure the corner and does not even make an eye.

Black "b" is still a problem, OC. ;)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #13 Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:22 pm 
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I looked up a few games with this pattern. It looks like :b8: in the game is rare and is more common to play :b8: as follows or push up at 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W More common
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 9 0 . 1 5 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W More common
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 9 0 . 1 5 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b6: is practically the only move seen (instead of the game move at 'a'.) After this, for white to defend at :w7: or 'b' fairly soon is common as is the pincer of :w9:. Sometimes the cut is left undefended as I did and the opponent does cut, but those fights can get complex. So I invited this out of fear of playing a slow move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 6 . 4 2 X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . 8 5 3 O X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . b . 7 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #14 Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:22 am 
Lives in gote

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In this game, I missed some chances to make it more active. These are my thoughts. No one else has looked at it yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #15 Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:54 am 
Judan
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Theme for this game: "That which does not kill me, makes me stronger." -Nietzsche.

( Please ignore the extraneous triangle at move 32. It is a typo )


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'I have often wondered how it is that every man loves himself more than all the rest of men, but yet sets less value on his own opinions of himself than on the opinions of others." -Marcus Aurelius

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #16 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:10 am 
Judan
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A better description of my concerns about move 32:

If the position were this, would you ever dream of playing at 'a'?
Of course not. It is an endgame move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . O . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yet by playing moves in a different order - C15 before C16 - you managed to get that exact position.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #17 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:39 am 
Judan

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Joaz: but if this were the position, would you ever dream of playing a as white? :) It's easy to misuse tewari. Locally speaking, both the wedging in move and pole connection are plausible. Which is better here I don't know. It seems to me Calvin wanted to defend the corner weakness in sente so he could separate at f16 and set up attacks against h17 (but h16 instead of a pincer ruined that!), but how good are they? Maybe white could atari at d17 and cover at f16 if he doesn't like that, which would allow black to do better on the left side. But as you said after pole connection c12 still aims at b14 connection. I remember in my game against Haylee at the London Open (4th game move 35 here) I had thought about playing these exchanges against her corner but in the review she pointed out she would probably play the wedge which makes it harder for me to take sente and see them as good kikashi.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . O . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #18 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:26 am 
Judan

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I think this is a better way of analysing this potion with tewari. If we start with the following position, and say black wants to stop white a damaging the corner (tenuki is not the end of the world if there's something really important elsewhere, like a fight this was leaning for).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . O . .
$$ | . X a X O . . . . ,
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


If black just connects at 1 then white has sente. What would white do? Tenuki? Maybe a if local? White wouldn't play 2 to close off the left side with it so open, it's an endgame move, and a thin one at that. So exchange of 1 for 2 is significantly good for black (compare to what white can do if black tenukid before 1).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . O . .
$$ | . X 1 X O . . . . ,
$$ | . 2 . O . . a . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


Then black plays 3 and white connects at 4. This exchange helps white, who got stronger on the outside, though black can capture the edge stone for endgame. Although white is a stronger shape, it's also rather heavy and needs an extension (but it's black's move). I think this exchange is less bad for black that the last one was bad for white, so overall black has gained a bit. As black has sente he can play such as a/b to separate the top stone, pincer the left, or elsewhere.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . O . .
$$ | . X X X O b . . . ,
$$ | . O 3 O . . a . . .
$$ | . . O 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


So, locally speaking, if black is sure white will play this way (big if) I think the wedge is generally better because black made one bad exchange, white made a worse one, and black got sente instead of gote.

What about that if? White has other choices: one would be to play atari of before and tenuki, or this atari and cover at 4. Can black hane at a to cut and fight? That depends on a ladder as after b he has to defend at c.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . c . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 X X b O . .
$$ | . X 3 X O 4 a . . ,
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


Maybe black would do this. This might make sense for white if the top side is interesting and the left not.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O X X . O . .
$$ | . X X X O O 6 . . ,
$$ | . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 5 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]


Conclusion? Meh, go is hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #19 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:13 am 
Judan

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
A better description of my concerns about move 32:

If the position were this, would you ever dream of playing at 'a'?
Of course not. It is an endgame move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . O . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . X X X O X . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yet by playing moves in a different order - C15 before C16 - you managed to get that exact position.


So what is the order of play that you are contemplating? Something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Permutation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X . O . . . . O O X O X . . |
$$ | . X 4 X 1 6 . . . , . . . X X X . . . |
$$ | . 5 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X O . . . X . . X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this sequence White has made two stupid plays and Black has made one stupid play. And now you are saying that Black should not make another stupid play? Well, duh! ;)

By the time you have gotten to :w5: you are already off the rails.

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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

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 Post subject: Re: Getting back into reviewing my games
Post #20 Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 am 
Judan

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Uberdude wrote:
Although white is a stronger shape, it's also rather heavy and needs an extension (but it's black's move). . . .
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X X . O . .
$$ | . X X X O b . . . ,
$$ | . O 3 O . . a . . .
$$ | . . O 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,[/go]



I think that AlphaGo has shown us that White is not really heavy here. (Compare with the 3-4, 5-4 joseki.)


Quote:
Conclusion? Meh, go is hard.


No detritus! :mrgreen:

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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

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