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 Post subject: Casual game at the coffeehouse
Post #1 Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:38 pm 
Tengen
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I was black. I don't remember how the game went after about move 60. ( Indeed, I'm not absolutely sure that I have the sequence correct before that )
I thought that after B51, black had a won game.

Any fuseki comments would be appreciated.


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Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:18 am 
Honinbo
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Quote:
Any fuseki comments would be appreciated.
For almost the entire duration of the SGF, zbaduk thought the game was quite "even" ( in human terms ) -- except :w42: missed a move that would've given White a 69% winrate.
Quote:
I thought that after :b51:, black had a won game.
zbaduk thought W slightly ahead, 54%, at :b51:, and W improved to 62% at :b61:.

The game was decided after :b61:.


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 Post subject: Re: Casual game at the coffeehouse
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:06 am 
Gosei
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My questions/observations:

30 - looks passive; no probe in the corner or a more aggressive approach?
34 - what made you decide to play here?
40 - looks overconcentrated; why not push up and reduce the moyo?
41 - after gaining influence at the bottom, Black stops fighting and plays an inconsistent defensive move on the second line; I think this is offering you the lead and all you have to do is jump out
46 - while 42 & 44 are incidental to the game, here you should IMO simply have moved out instead of headbutting Black's defensive structure
50 - consistent with 46 & 48 but losing sente and small; as said, simply jumping out would been better I think

edit: oh, you were black ...


Last edited by Knotwilg on Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Casual game at the coffeehouse
Post #4 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 am 
Judan

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Some top of the head comments, in modern AI style:
- black 9 should connect at q14: it's sente as p17 and double hane (not old-style extend) is a severe followup so white should answer and then you can shimari.
- white 10 should q14 cut to take advantage of black's mistake
- black 11 should connect. Double approach being not so scary and locally urgent moves like q14 that alter the strength and weakness of groups taking priority is one of the clearest lessons of bots (the what-is-urgent threshold has lowered).
- white 12 q14 ditto, black 13 etc once the joseki starts should continue
- white 20, off topic, needs to defend top group e.g. f16, old-style j/h17, or fancy modern style striving-for-maximum-efficiency d13.
- black 21, wrong area: q14 still biggest, plus locally slack as allows W comfy corner, c6 approach even with white f3 present already is modern style (because if white kicks and pincers following old theory that it's bad to approach such a corner shimari f3 is low so not attacking as hard as f4, plus kick is locally a bad shape.
- white 24, huzzah!
- black 25, thank you move, loses chance to attack whole group at h17.
- white 30, too close to strong group, side might look wide but its relatively boring area. Either start operations against right side e.g. o3, q4, p9, grow top eg g16 (although f16 was thank-you black j17 is still an aim) or k16, or if lower side at least go further and high like l/m4.
- black 31, nice
- white 34, too early, black m3 is big and thick so white needs to take that profit so that when white does invade/reduce black has to work hard to make profit rather than just play an easy gote move like m3. So n3.
- black 39, cut first to get more forcing moves
- white 40, inefficient, j5 better as when black cut can atari under.
- black 41, very strange direction, what are you scared of, white r11? You should keep attacking from outside eg o8 or q6.
- white 44, helps black's corner more than it helps white get out to centre.
- black 51, fancy pants, but o8 still more important, or r8 annoying
- white 54, better to just defend q15
- white 60, too obedient (and not best local move anyway), white believed you that these 2 stones are more important than the other group.


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 Post subject: Re: Casual game at the coffeehouse
Post #5 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:46 am 
Honinbo

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A couple of points.

Top right. Yes, the solid connection is urgent. So connect with :b9: and then after White replies locally, two space high enclosure in the bottom right. OC, there were other chances to make the connection. When White cuts, the local temperature has dropped, because White is so strong. :b27: Pulling back and then taking gote with :b29: is not so great, especially as White's potential on the top has increased, and how to deal with it is not clear. The bottom side looks bigger at this point.

Left side, The plan to make a moyo there is at this point ( :b21: ) too close to Black's strength in the top left. Better connect in the top right and then maybe play on the bottom with the shoulder hit at G-04. :b23: : Better connect in the top right and then develop the bottom side, or maybe the right side with a high extension, as White's bottom left corner has been strengtened with :w22:.

In the later fight: :b37: Black's corner is too weak to tenuki now. Block at Q-06. :b39: Ditto. :w40: was horrid. So was :b41:. The fact that you felt like strengthening Black here underscores the problem earlier with :b27: and :b29:. But really, Black's problems started with the failure to connect in the top right with :b9:.

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 Post subject: Re: Casual game at the coffeehouse
Post #6 Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 am 
Tengen
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Knotwilg wrote:
...
edit: oh, you were black ...

Your comments are not wasted. I'll pass them on to him next week.

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