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 Post subject: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #1 Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:57 pm 
Lives with ko
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Ordinarily I'd just run this through Leela, but the handicap stones and the white stones at N4 are throwing off the analysis.

https://online-go.com/game/20597911

Thank you for any insight you can provide. I'm black. :study:


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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #2 Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:17 pm 
Lives in gote
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A few (5k OGS level) comments.

P.S. Did you try Katago? I think it can be useful, even to review handicap games.

P.P.S. Just saw your other post where you say your graphics card crashes each time you use LZ/Katago.



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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:07 am 
Dies in gote
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Hi Drew,

i think jlt already pointed out the most important things. just adding some comments concerning direction of play i thought might help you in your games. I'm just a 7/8k myself, so take it with a grain of salt ;-)



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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #4 Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:47 am 
Gosei
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Rank: Bel 2d KGS 3d TG 4d
KGS: Artevelde
Tygem: Knotwilg
Technical remarks from my side:

There are two themes in your play, up until the crucial cut at 63

1) you like to play stones that touch enemy stones, such as attachment, hane or "the stones go walking" (see Kageyama). Attachments are usually emergency measures or, like hane and subsequent "walking", lead to mutual reinforcement. When attacking or developing, it is usually better to keep distance.

:w4:, :w10: attaching to an already strong stone usually is an emergency measure to make something viable while reinforcing the opponent; in the opening that's likely too soon
:w14: not bad, but you are already struggling with a group in the opening, which is unexpected, and make your opponent stronger on the side while running
:w44:, :w46: as pointed out by others, the "kick" is often deceptive in that it creates potential territory in sente, but in reality the opponent's stones become stronger and your diagonal shape is worse than his straight connection, which can haunt you later

2) you don't respect - IMO - the fundamentals of connect & cut: keep your own (important) stones connected and cut your opponent's (important) stones

:w36: as pointed out, important stones on both sides, you can cut off his but you don't
:w42: maybe the intention is there to connect but the shape is weak
:w52: an experienced player will shiver at this move, which forces your opponent to connect strongly and cut your stones; we call this "cutting yourself"; indeed, your stones are cut already by that diagonal, but it's better to leave that slightly weak shape for future exploitation, than forcing the connection
:w56: this too has themes 1) and 2): you play close to the enemy, forcing him to cut your stones
:w60: and :w62: go for the connection of your stones, by capturing his cutting stones, which is good in itself, but sadly the connection/cut at :b63: is even more important

On the upside: :w48: was a good move, cutting his vital stones with some delay!

Don't take this as a dogma, but try to figure out for yourself when it's better to keep some distance and try to focus a little more on important connections. Good luck and enjoy!

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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #5 Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:55 am 
Honinbo

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A few comments. :)


_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

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— Lion Miller

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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #6 Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:20 pm 
Lives with ko
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Thank you for the insightful comments, everyone. I will do my best to take them to heart.

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 Post subject: Re: 12k vs 8k handicap game review
Post #7 Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:10 am 
Tengen
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Kaya handle: Test
IMHO, move 8 was bad.

White tenukied from the upper left, which was probably a mistake.
Most joseki books say that white must follow up with D14, pressing black down.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . C . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


When white misses a strong move like that, black should be looking to exploit it.

There is a proverb that says that the opponent's good move is my own.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Maybe just take D14 yourself
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or just go ahead with the natural safe move which vaguely threatens C6:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or the dual purpose move - which may be trying to do too much with one stone.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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