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 Post subject: Request to review games #3
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:42 am 
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Hello all

Please see another game I lost as White. This game is a bit different as I'm not able to clearly identify any major blunders, but I still ended up losing definitively. Would be curious to see your insights/advice.

Thanks!



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2021-04-10 sidk-HSasaki.sgf [4.49 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Request to review games #3
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:30 am 
Gosei
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Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
This wasn't a game with big mistakes. Both played a rather collected game but Black did better in finding the shapes and the big endgame.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 16 to 18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X , 8 . . . X , . . . 6 . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Exercise 1: find the shape move instead of :w6:. It remains valid as a better alternative to :w8:. For that move, it's also instructive to think of the top as Black's investment, so not too urgent to go there. Left and lower side are bigger.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 48 to 48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . 8 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The same move as in Exercise 1 is still the most urgent move. With :w8: you attach to a weak stone, which will develop into a living group at the side in exchange for central influence which isn't that useful.

Exercise 2: what would be a better idea, locally?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 70 to 70
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . a . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Here I too have some unlearning to do. ''a'' is better.

Exercise 3: Try visualizing the sequence and why KataGo thinks it is better than your move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 82 to 82
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X X . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Up until here, the difference has stayed within 5 points, so the game has been playable all the time, at your level. Here the difference starts to grow.
Exercise 4: Find the best move, a big endgame move which eventually Black took for himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Request to review games #3
Post #3 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:44 am 
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Thanks for the comments!! Please see my answers below. I'm probably way off, but these are good thinking exercises.

Exercise 1:
I think move 8 would be a good shape move to give my white group 2 potential eyes:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 16 to 18
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . X , . . . 6 . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Exercise 2:
I think it'd be better to solidify my corner and then maybe pincer black for pressure.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 48 to 50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 0 . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Exercise 3:
I think hane on the inside can potentially attack B's right group. But i'm also worried B can invade my corner below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 70 to 77
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . 7 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 4 1 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Exercise 4:
My gut feeling is that I should try to get points in the center while reducing B's potential territory... maybe here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 82 to 82
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X X . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Request to review games #3
Post #4 Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:18 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1848
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 283
Was liked: 844
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
1 - you spotted the shape move
2 - the pincer is a good idea; making it heavy first is appropriate when the kick is on the 3rd line; here Black can ignore the "kick" on the second line
3 - ...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 70 to 77
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 2 1 . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is not so easy for me to comment on, as said. But this sequence leaves Black with a cramped eye space and WHite with more territory. It hurts the center but Katago doesn't think that's too bad.

4 -

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Moves 82 to 82
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . X . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . X O X . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O O . O O X , . . . O . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O X X . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . O . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O O . O X , . . X O . O . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The interestig endgame move is :w1: here. If Black blocks then ... ?

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 Post subject: Re: Request to review games #3
Post #5 Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:35 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Request to review games #3
Post #6 Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:56 am 
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@Knotwilg - Re Exercise 4; i see why that's such a big endgame move! it's a shame i didn't catch it in the game.
@rhwocns - thanks again for all the variations!!

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