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Living On The Side??
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Author:  jeffb99 [ Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Living On The Side??
Attached are the first 23 moves of a game I played (I'm Black). As you can see, I made an approach on the left side in :b18: and :b20:. Unfortunately, I frequently find that I fail to squeak out enough space to live and then lose 5-10 stones trying to do so. This game was no different. :-(

While I'm certainly interested in seeing the specific moves for living on the left side in this game, every situation is abit different (with opponent stones in different locations). Can someone explain the overall strategy for success here? Was my basic mistake playing on the 4th line instead of the 3rd? Regardless of a 3rd or 4th line placement, after the 2 stones are set, should I immediately push towards the edge with a knights move against the opponents weaker corner (B12 or C13) to gain living space? Connect with slower attachments or 1 space jumps towards the edge (e.g. B8)? Something else?

Thanks!!

--Jeff



Attachments:
Side Life.sgf [272 Bytes]
Downloaded 509 times
Author:  dfan [ Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
jeffb99 wrote:
Was my basic mistake playing on the 4th line instead of the 3rd?
Yes. :)

As a general rule of thumb, if you want to live on the side, play on the third line; if you want to reduce and jump out, play on the fourth.

My basic rule for the side (I don't think it is original to me) is "one eye plus access to the center". With a standard two-space jump on the third line, you should be able to form one eye on the side with no problem, and as long as you can run, you should be fine. If you find yourself close to being sealed in, you need to start seeing if you can make a specific plan for local life.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
First, stop thinking in terms of squeaking out life on the left side. That puts you in a defensive, negative frame of mind.

Second, you can make a case for approaching on the third line instead of the fourth, because then you threaten to make territory on the side after White responds.

Third, it may be best to sacrifice the D-08 stone. It is very close to White's four stone group, which is not weak. A big mistake in trying to live is to try to save every stone. All of this is speculative, as it is too early to tell.

Fourth, when you have a fight on the side with two groups, often there will be a play that each side would like to play to make life or at least an eye. B-08 looks like it might be such a point. If White plays there Black may not be able to make an eye on the side, while if Black plays there, neither will White, and Black threatens to connect to the corner. So B-08 is a move to consider.

Fifth, because White can come in underneath Black on both sides, Black cannot count on territory, or even an eye on the left side, much less life. That being the case, Black will very likely need to make an eye in the center, and that suggests a jump to F-11. That jump threatens to attack the White group in the bottom left.

Sixth, there is a general rule of thumb for living with a side group: One eye and access to the center. Here Black has maybe ½ eye and access to the center. So this is not so easy for Black. But it is still playable.

Given the difficulties you are having with this type of position, maybe it is better to make plays on the third line, such as approaching with C-08 or before that playing C-11.

In this case, maybe Black should play B-08 and then, assuming that White prevents the connection, jump to F-11. And then don't be too concerned with making life. Attack White's group.
Author:  mitsun [ Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
I do not see a mistake or a problem on the left side yet. The worst thing you can do is start playing purely defensively, get surrounded, and be forced to live. The surrounding W group below is not strong (you can aim at E7 cut), so you have good counter-play possibilities. It is too soon to think solely of living.

With that in mind, Bill's suggestion of B8 is attractive. This is a multiple purpose move -- starts making B eye space, reduces W eye space, prepares to connect to the corner, prepares to counter-attack at E7. There is still plenty of room to run into the center, so F10 or F11 would be good alternatives. Given all of these options, you could also tenuki, and let W worry about how and when to attack.

Based on your past experience, I would recommend simply F11, to avoid any possibility of getting surrounded. You cannot play dame forever while W makes territory below, so make up your mind to fight back soon, rather than simply trying to live.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
Prior to reading the other poster's replies, my first reaction to the game was this: white played F6, then F8. If that is his direction of play, then black should stall it by capping him with F10.
You don't even have to understand why white is going in that direction - although it would help - you need only observe that he wants to play a certain point, so you should take it just so he can't have it.

Watch cats trying to share space. They do this frequently. Imitate them.

I agree with F10/F11.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
dfan wrote:
jeffb99 wrote:
Was my basic mistake playing on the 4th line instead of the 3rd?
Yes. :)...


I disagree a bit.

Playing on the fourth line is not a de facto mistake. It is only a mistake if you want it to be a side group and treat it as such when it is not.
It is perfectly okay to have high groups. You just have to remember their character and play accordingly: their future is in the middle.
Author:  jeffb99 [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
Thanks for all of the reviews and comments. To Joaz's point, I think that hit on my mistake. I played the 4th line with the intention of living on the side, not playing into the middle. I knew better. Chalk it up to (another) tactical mistake and (another) lesson learned.

--Jeff
Author:  dfan [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
dfan wrote:
jeffb99 wrote:
Was my basic mistake playing on the 4th line instead of the 3rd?
Yes. :)...

I disagree a bit.

Playing on the fourth line is not a de facto mistake. It is only a mistake if you want it to be a side group and treat it as such when it is not.
It is perfectly okay to have high groups. You just have to remember their character and play accordingly: their future is in the middle.

Yes, that is what I meant in my second paragraph. The terseness in my first paragraph was for effect, perhaps too much so.
Author:  Fedya [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Living On The Side??
Quote:
Watch cats trying to share space. They do this frequently. Imitate them.


I don't think my opponents will like it if I start hissing at them. :D
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I don't think my opponents will like it if I start hissing at them. :D
Some are more expressive...
Attachment:
IMG_1374.PNG
IMG_1374.PNG [ 801.08 KiB | Viewed 5004 times ]
...than others...
:)
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