Life In 19x19
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Unclear loss
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16497
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Author:  yakcyll [ Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Unclear loss

I played a game that left me scratching my head a bit. I'm not sure if my errors were uncharacteristically bad, but during the game and during analysis it wasn't quite clear to me where the major mistakes were (having three weak groups was definitely one). All input is welcome.


Author:  mhlepore [ Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

My thoughts...


Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

There is a theme to the opening comments. :)

Main focus: Getting enclosed, even if you make small life, is usually not good.



Edit: I have been thinking about what lost the game. No one thing, OC. Black came out of the fighting on the bottom side behind. Then :b71:, although joseki, was passive. :w76: gave Black chances, but :b77: should have been the jump attachment, attacking both sides. Then, :b79:, although maybe OK in itself, led to a complicated position where Black had difficulties. Finally, at least as far as I looked, the hane, :b87:, was an overplay, leaving Black with too many weaknesses.

Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

EDIT: I see that Bill posted while I was typing. Hmmm...I still don't like your direction of play at move 25, even if he says it is good.


Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
EDIT: I see that Bill posted while I was typing. Hmmm...I still don't like your direction of play at move 25, even if he says it is good.


Nothing against your suggestions. In fact, attacking the White group on the right side might be best. But other moves are quite playable. If Black undercuts the White group in the bottom right (while making a live group himself), and White does not reply (and I think he should not), then Black M-03 is an attack against that group.

Not that that play occurred to me, but once Black plays it, its value becomes apparent. It is playable. :)

Author:  yakcyll [ Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

Thank you all for comments :) It does look like I underestimated the strength of the wall a lot.
Bill Spight wrote:
There is a theme to the opening comments. :)
Some losses just look like I could draw some general conclusions from them. Other than that, I still have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. Also, it sounds like playing 2 is the key!
I think the main takeaways are to remember the shape in the bottom left (how white's tiger's mouth encloses black solidly and black's push prevents that and leaves potential for a push and a cut), avoiding getting enclosed, avoiding heavy play near strength and looking for counter-attacks. I really liked your idea to keep the three white stones on the bottom unsettled from the start, Bill.

@Joaz: Good point about not settling until necessary. Also, jumping out of a pincer after an approach like this always seemed like a no-no to me. What's different between a low 1-space pincer and a high 1-space pincer in this regard?

Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Unclear loss

yakcyll wrote:
I think the main takeaways are to remember the shape in the bottom left (how white's tiger's mouth encloses black solidly and black's push prevents that and leaves potential for a push and a cut), avoiding getting enclosed, avoiding heavy play near strength and looking for counter-attacks. I really liked your idea to keep the three white stones on the bottom unsettled from the start, Bill.


I was around your strength when I learned about plays like White C-07, even if it does not carry a threat against the corner. I did not believe it was so big, but I tried it out in my own games, with great success. :)

Author:  EdLee [ Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:31 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hi yakcll,
Some suggestions for :b25: .
( DeepLeela is a 'freebie' bot; other bots with better software and hardware may give different numbers. :) )
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