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Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16502		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Okay, so I finally managed to win an online game again against an OGS 7 kyu. The game itself was rather fun, with a big kill, which is highly atypical for my games (at least if I'm the one doing the killing).
Since I'm working on attacking now, this is a good little boost for the confidence.

Yet in the end the margin of victory is smaller than I had anticipated, despite that capture. So I'd like to know where white picks up enough points to almost beat me despite the capture.
I reviewed it with Leela and added some comments, but there is no one moment where black suddenly loses a lot of points or so, so I'm guessing it's smaller things with a general theme. Perhaps I lose out in the opening with some bad (non-joseki) moves, maybe I play too timid after the capture?
If I had to pinpoint my faults myself, I'd mostly go with the timid thing. Especially after the capture, and thinking I'm ahead, I play some moves that are "chicken", but safe. Is that wrong, if you know you're ahead? I think maybe it is, since a lead can always evaporate... (it depends on the lead, obviously)

Hope you can help me, thanks!
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Ian Butler wrote:
Okay, so I finally managed to win an online game again against an OGS 7 kyu. The game itself was rather fun, with a big kill, which is highly atypical for my games (at least if I'm the one doing the killing).
Since I'm working on attacking now, this is a good little boost for the confidence.


Congratulations! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Quote:
Yet in the end the margin of victory is smaller than I had anticipated, despite that capture. So I'd like to know where white picks up enough points to almost beat me despite the capture.


A margin of victory of 11 pts. at the 8 kyu level might be a squeaker, but maybe not. I'd have to look at the game to make a guess about that. But when I was an SDK, +/- 10 was a normal result. None of us thought, gee, I almost lost. :lol:

Quote:
I reviewed it with Leela and added some comments, but there is no one moment where black suddenly loses a lot of points or so, so I'm guessing it's smaller things with a general theme.


Because it was trained on winning and losing games, not points, and because it was trained on strong human play, Leela is probably not very sensitive to the difference between winning by 11 pts. and winning by 30 points. Except maybe in the opening.

Quote:
Perhaps I lose out in the opening with some bad (non-joseki) moves, maybe I play too timid after the capture?
If I had to pinpoint my faults myself, I'd mostly go with the timid thing. Especially after the capture, and thinking I'm ahead, I play some moves that are "chicken", but safe. Is that wrong, if you know you're ahead? I think maybe it is, since a lead can always evaporate... (it depends on the lead, obviously)


If your so-called timid plays are solid plays that reduce the opportunities of the opponent to win the game, you can't really find any fault with them, except perhaps in terms of technique. Not much of a worry. :)

Now I'll take a look at your game. :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Well, yeah, this was a squeaker. Too much excitement for one game. :lol:

Yes, you did not very well before the kill, and you lost points you did not need to in the fight. And after the kill you played much to passively. You do not have to play passively to play solidly. Even when you had the game sewn up, you gave your opponent chances to win.

I have pointed out .some tesuji for you to keep in mind.

There were times when you made obviously small plays when there were big ones staring you in the face. May I suggest developing the habit of taking a second or two to simply look at the whole board. Doing so will help break your focus on areas where the plays are small.

One note. Victor, your opponent, was way too stubborn. You were not stubborn enough. :)



I made lot of comments. As always, there is no guarantee of correctness. ;)

Edit: Added a few variations. Including a kill without ko.

Edit2: Corrected hallucination. :oops:
Author:  jlt [ Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Hi Bill,

I don't understand the tesuji at move 49. What happens if White plays at N16? Black needs to defend the Q16 group, so maybe wants to kill the N17 stones by playing at N15, but then White may want to kill M18? I am confused.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ----------------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O X O X . . . |
$$ X . . . O . X 3 O . X O . . |
$$ . . . O , X . 1 X 2 X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . X X O . . |[/go]
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
jlt wrote:
Hi Bill,

I don't understand the tesuji at move 49. What happens if White plays at N16? Black needs to defend the Q16 group, so maybe wants to kill the N17 stones by playing at N15, but then White may want to kill M18? I am confused.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ----------------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O X O X . . . |
$$ X . . . O . X 3 O . X O . . |
$$ . . . O , X . 1 X 2 X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . X X O . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ----------------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . 4 . 6 . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O X O X . . . |
$$ X . . . O . X 2 O 5 X O . . |
$$ . . . O , X . 1 X 3 X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . X . . . |
$$ . . . . X . . . . . . . O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . X X O . . |[/go]
Author:  Ian Butler [ Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Thank you, Bill, for analysing this squeaker of a game for me :)
It's definitely one of my major bad habits, this soft/non-stubborn/scared/passive playing and it's certainly something I need and want to work on. Though I must also confess this happens way less in live play, almost always in online play.

Move 147 was painful. I had actually looked at the net, but read out it didn't work because the black stone at M16 could be caught and then white had a stone at M15.
I have tried to re-read it now (not playing it out), and I see that doesn't change the capture of those 2 stones.

Likewise situation with the cutting point at C8. I only read a few moves ahead and thought the cutting point worked. But you showed it doesn't.

However, mistakes like that don't haunt me as much. They are reading errors and I think that happens at all levels. Increasing one's reading is a constant work and you can't be blamed for misreading things, only for not reading. Two things I misread, I can live with.


Again, thanks for the review.
Now I'm starting to look forward to the 2 weeks of Go training in Germany, where I'll play live games every day, under the guidance of 2 strong players. I think it'll do me good and they'll pinpoint where I go wrong. I'm certain they'll point out the same things you do, but I'll be able to ask way more questions with immediate and live response and learn from them quicker!
Author:  Bill Spight [ Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Game review for 7 kyu vs 9 kyu
Ian Butler wrote:
Thank you, Bill, for analysing this squeaker of a game for me :)
It's definitely one of my major bad habits, this soft/non-stubborn/scared/passive playing and it's certainly something I need and want to work on. Though I must also confess this happens way less in live play, almost always in online play.

Move 147 was painful. I had actually looked at the net, but read out it didn't work because the black stone at M16 could be caught and then white had a stone at M15.
I have tried to re-read it now (not playing it out), and I see that doesn't change the capture of those 2 stones.


Well, I had a hallucination about the net. :oops: But it still looks like it lets Black escape. I have added a fun variation. :)

Quote:
Likewise situation with the cutting point at C8. I only read a few moves ahead and thought the cutting point worked. But you showed it doesn't.

However, mistakes like that don't haunt me as much. They are reading errors and I think that happens at all levels. Increasing one's reading is a constant work and you can't be blamed for misreading things, only for not reading. Two things I misread, I can live with.


Well, I goofed, too, on the net. But the C-08 cut leads to a ladder, and a short one, at that. It is well within your reading capacity. :)
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