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 Post subject: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Please
Post #1 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:17 pm 
Dies in gote
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Hello,
I think that I play a very bad game, without taking care of my weak groups.
I would like to know mainly about the move 28...if it was an overplay, bad move...or if it's ok, because I didn't know where was the best place to put this move...I was thinkiing about the possibility to enlarge my bottom territory attacking the right hoshi...but I tried nullify the left potential of the opponent moyo.

Can someone help-me with a review, please?

I'm white.

Thank you very much!


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #2 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:50 pm 
Gosei
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Although we can discuss the whole game, I believe your problems start at 66 and you can learn from this mistake alone.

When you jump into the corner and Black cuts off your approach stone, you get the corner and sacrifice the stone. At move 66 however you decide to save the stone and create a 3rd group at the bottom. Eventually you return to the corner, Black cuts your two groups at the bottom (while threatening a group at the top too) and your position crumbles.

Instead, finish the sequence in the corner and focus on the group in the bottom left. The game should be fine then.

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #3 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:31 pm 
Lives with ko

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I looked at your game and then verified some of my thoughts with Leela Zero.

My impression was that I didn't like the position at :w28:, but I couldn't really say that there were any bad moves, as such. The latter part is confirmed by the engine, which thinks White's chances are steadily rising up to that point. Still, I think there are a few things that a human might want to play differently.

Engines in general seem not to like the :w6: pincer all that much, preferring to just play a knight's move from your 4-4 stone. The pincer invites Black to take your corner territory. In the game your opponent chose a different line, and to me it looked like the position would have been much nicer for White if the bottom right stone had been white instead of black.

Here's an idea from LZ, instead of the two-space extension: put more pressure on the black stones. You can then follow up at 'a' to take away the eyes and force Black to run out, and you can extend along the top side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19
$$---------------+
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . a . |
$$ . . . . O X . |
$$ . O . O . X . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . 1 . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |[/go]


After two more moves in the game, it's White who looks weaker to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc19
$$-------------+
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O X . |
$$ O . O . X . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . a . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . |[/go]
LZ doesn't see a big problem in terms of win rate, but also thinks a move at 'a' here to both reinforce and hint at an attack wouldn't be a bad plan.

Here's an engine idea I found instructive: after Black plays the marked stone, trying to take a narrow territory in the upper right is fruitless (and the game move at :w22: still leaves a weakness). Instead, split the opponent more forcefully:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19
$$---------------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 6 # . . . . . O X . |
$$ . . . . 5 1 . O . O . X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . 3 . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


At :w26:, I'd prefer not to strengthen Black, so as to leave the left side more open:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X .
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . .
$$ | . . a . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
However, LZ sees nothing wrong with your move ('a'). It isn't considered, but the winrate is unchanged.

:w28: is within Black's sphere of influence. As I said above, my personal preference would have been to change :w26: instead, but LZ points out the following alternative play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19m28
$$ +------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]
I'd interpret that as putting pressure on the two black stones at the top, and making invasion of the left side easier.

From there on the engine is mostly happy with your play, but here's another interesting idea:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19m36
$$ +----------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . # . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X . O .
$$ | . . . O . . O 1 . . . . . O
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Black just played the marked point. That makes the top group the stronger one, so lean on it to attack the other stones, and once again don't worry too much about defending a small amount of territory.

Move :w40: at O3 is perhaps slightly off-topic with several weak-looking groups on the board. But the first really bad move that jumped out at me when I looked at the game is :w44:. Letting Black push out like that can't be right. :w50: is a huge blunder, Black could descend and capture everything:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc19
$$-------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X O . 1 . O 2 3 |
$$ X . O . X O O X . |
$$ . . . O X O X X . |
$$ . . . O O X . . . |
$$ . . . . X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

After Black fails to take advantage, White has a won game (90% in LZ terms) for a long time. The sequence of moves starting at N3 doesn't look wrong to me or to the engine: it feels completely natural. Black's attempt to cut with :b73: at K3 is way too violent, but White misses a few chances.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc19
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . 1 . . .
$$ O . . X . . . . .
$$ . . O O X X O O O
$$ . . . . O O X X X
$$ . . . . . . . . .
$$------------------[/go]
Why not this, at :w80:?


This post by bernds was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #4 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:36 pm 
Gosei
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Bernd makes good comments. He points out that 66 was not losing according to Lizzie.

However, I still think that is where you start making it difficult for yourself.

Indeed, the losing move happens to come much later, being the wrong way to cut. It makes a 85/58 difference, technically still not losing, but a major drop in winning percentage.

Full review:


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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #5 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:42 pm 
Oza
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Your problems begin with 14 and multiply every time that you refuse to finish local situations and turn elsewhere. Bots may be strong enough for that but you (and I) are not! Look at the position around move 100. You have created six or seven groups versus three or four for Black. You have not managed to attack Black anywhere and not turned your groups into significant territory. Back to basics!

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #6 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:49 pm 
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Quote:
Your problems begin with 14 and multiply every time that you refuse to finish local situations and turn elsewhere.


I can't speak for the OP, but the flip side of this is that I see a lot of comments from strong players criticizing us kyu players for playing unnecessary extra moves in a local situation instead of playing tenuki.


This post by Fedya was liked by: Joaz Banbeck
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Post #7 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:25 pm 
Honinbo
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Quote:
but the flip side of this is that I see a lot of comments... playing unnecessary extra moves in a local situation instead of playing tenuki.
Yep; this never goes away.

One extra local move: slow.
Missing a local move: dead/ko/get chased forever/lingering bad aji, etc.

Bots show us even top pros routinely make these mistakes. :blackeye:

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #8 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:26 pm 
Gosei

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Yes, both kinds of mistakes are bad. Go is hard, sorry. :(

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Post #9 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:44 pm 
Honinbo

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EdLee wrote:
Quote:
but the flip side of this is that I see a lot of comments... playing unnecessary extra moves in a local situation instead of playing tenuki.
Bots show us even top pros routinely make these mistakes. :blackeye:


My impression is that even pros tend to make the extra local play more often than playing tenuki when they shouldn't. Is that so?

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Post #10 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:00 pm 
Honinbo
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Hi Bill, yea; that's my impression too. :batman:

The bots are much more flexibile than the top human brains ( in Go anyway ); that's why they routinely tenuki in the middle of what humans consider one-way-street-fights... ( because of their vastly superior global reading and assessment ).

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 Post subject: Re: Can someone help-me with a review about this 5k game? Pl
Post #11 Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:33 pm 
Dies in gote
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Thank you very much!!!!
I'm trying playing better without make many weak groups or tenuki an urgent location before a big move.

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