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 Post subject: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:43 pm 
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Hi,

Bill posted that the forum can't display smaller board sizes, so I'm attaching an SGF, hoping someone will be able to download it and comment on my game (black).

I've been playing some 9x9 games now, and it seems to be the same mistake I run into over and over again:

I try making territory, but I'm mainly making eyes and securing smaller territories.
The opponent is able to take a bigger territory from the beginning and is able to prevent me from invading.

Living and loosing in gote...

I guess it is more difficult to comment on a game that is not displayed here, but I'd be very happy if someone would take the trouble to give some comments!

PS: The SGF says there was no time limit, but there was (a custom one by my opponent, 5min + 30, I think.
Opponent had a rating of 25k.)


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140719-GDz-Jika.sgf [711 Bytes]
Downloaded 8 times

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:10 pm 
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A few quick comments.

(P.S. Actually the forum can read this file, here it is.)



Attachments:
GDz-Jika-commented.sgf [1.65 KiB]
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Last edited by jlt on Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:23 pm 
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Thank you very much.

Can you please tell me what program you used to make the comments?

Pandanet does not display the mentioned points "A" etc, qGo neither.
So I can only guess what points you are referring to.

edit: GoKibitz can handle it.
Thanks a lot!!

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:30 pm 
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19x19, 13x13, and 9x9 games will be shown using the SGF tags. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:47 pm 
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Oh, cool!

Is it possible you changed that recently?

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:54 pm 
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The forum has always been able to display 19x19, 13x13 and 9x9. In an older message, Bill was referring to smaller sizes like 5x5 or 7x7 that are not handled by the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:02 am 
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That message must have been the one I remember.

@jlt:
Thanks a lot for the comments!

I overlooked that attacking the 3 stones was possible.

Not attaching is an important advice, because bots often do that, or Crazy sensei or such.
Is that different when counting Chinese??
Blocking each other with two parallel rows?

What is the difference between me attaching and white's moves 16, 18?
He has to place the stones side to side to block me, but maybe the difference is that he already has territory, while I'm trying to get some?

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #8 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:21 am 
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When you play :b9:, your stone has 3 liberties so after your opponent's next play you are down to 2 liberties.

On the other hand, when White plays :w16:, his group has many liberties.

Chinese or Japanese counting doesn't matter, good shapes are the same whatever the rule. Maybe next time you have a game, you can count liberties of every group, it may help you to be aware that some of your groups are in danger, or that some of your opponent's group can be attacked.

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #9 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:49 am 
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Counting liberties is helping me a lot when doing tsumego (or some of the 321go exercises).

I think in a real game I don't do it because it takes me much time.

I got time-pressured in OGS games a few times.

Players use very different (often custom) timing, and I'm happy to find a 9x9 game, but do not know if the timing is difficult or not.

In this game, time was not the problem, but I keep thinking I have to play fast.

Most of my moves where within 5-10 sec (which is very fast for me).

Is there a beginner-friendly timing (eg what numbers in capped Fischer) I should prefer?

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #10 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:02 am 
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I am not used to Fischer time settings, but when playing with byo-yomi I need at least 30 seconds per byo-yomi period, with less than 30 seconds I either lose on time or make ridiculous blunders. Fischer with 30 seconds of increment capped at 5 minutes would be even more comfortable. Of course, some people are not willing to spend too much time on a game and so won't accept your challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:12 am 
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Byo-yomi sounds complicated, but I think I played it with someone (getting into byo-yomi quickly and making random moves...).

I'll see if someone wants to accept a longer timing.

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:24 am 
Honinbo

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Jika wrote:
I've been playing some 9x9 games now, and it seems to be the same mistake I run into over and over again:

I try making territory, but I'm mainly making eyes and securing smaller territories.
The opponent is able to take a bigger territory from the beginning and is able to prevent me from invading.

Living and loosing in gote...


Ask for a handicap. Say, three stones on the 9x9. That should give you chances to win, and opportunities to learn. :)

Here are some comments and variations. :)




BTW, taking 5-10 sec. per move is fine. You don't have much to think about at this point in your development. :)

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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:48 am 
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Jika wrote:
Counting liberties is helping me a lot when doing tsumego (or some of the 321go exercises).

I think in a real game I don't do it because it takes me much time.


Counting dame (up to 6 or so for each string) is one of the most important things to do at this stage of your development. Take the time to do it. Counting dame should become a habit. With practice you will be able to count up to 6 dame at a glance, maybe more. :)

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The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:37 am 
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Bill, thanks a lot for the variations.
When I see them, I wonder why they did not occur to me :lol:

Oh, I did not know that counting dame is important!
I'll practice it.

The custom games (most 9x9 seem to be custom) usually say "no handicap".
I guess the more advanced DDKs don't want to loose.

Fennan taught me today what "fast" and "slow" means in go...

Thank you all for your time and help!

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 Post subject: Re: 9x9 Always the same mistake
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:54 am 
Honinbo

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Jika wrote:
Bill, thanks a lot for the variations.
When I see them, I wonder why they did not occur to me :lol:


You are learning, Grasshopper. :D

Quote:
Oh, I did not know that counting dame is important!


The number of dame a string has is the minimum number of moves it takes to capture it. Often it is exactly the number of moves it takes. So it is an important datum to know in a fight. Counting up to 5 or 6 dame should become a habit that takes almost no time at all. :)

Quote:
I'll practice it.

Good!

Quote:
The custom games (most 9x9 seem to be custom) usually say "no handicap".
I guess the more advanced DDKs don't want to loose.


My guess is that the server software has no instructions on placing handicap stones on custom boards. So to play with a handicap, let White make some number of passes at the beginning of the game. E. G., Black plays :b1:, White passes, Black plays :b3:, White passes, Black plays :b5:, White plays :w6:. Voila! A three stone game. :D

_________________
The Adkins Principle:

At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?

— Winona Adkins

I think it's a great idea to talk during sex, as long as it's about snooker.

— Steve Davis


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