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 Post subject: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #1 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:06 am 
Lives with ko

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Before playing a game on Tygem today, it downloaded an update. This is the first major update of the English client I've seen for a long time.

A few new features;

A "Quick Match" button alongside the auto-match, which allows you to choose 5, 10 or 15 minutes plus byo-yomi, and skip the negotiation step in getting a game. The downside is that this costs t-points (the betting currency), and currently we can't get the 100,000 free t-points every two hours available to the native client. Or you have to be a member, which also isn't available on the english client. I gave it a try, as I had a few points, and got a game at my preferred time setting almost instantly. It's a shame that I won't be able to use this all the time.

Now you get two types of game requests; those from the quick match, where you can agree to the time limit straight away, or from the old style auto-match, where you enter a negotiation screen first.

There is also a "revenge match" option within quick match, but it appears to be for members only, so I'm not entirely sure what its purpose it. Play against someone that has beaten you before?

There is now a "manner grade" in your profile and in the players list. This appears to be something that has been around for the korean client for a while, as players already have ratings. Not sure how it works, I played a game and it didn't give me the option to rate my opponent, and my rating didn't change so I'm not sure what it's about.

The overall look of the client has changed a bit. It looks a little more sleek, but still has a bit of a dated windows 95-ish look. It is an improvement IMO.

I played a game and was disappointed to see that now, after move 100, you have to pay t-points to use the score estimator. Usually I want to play quick-ish games (5 or 10 minutes), and my counting is not too bad but it takes me some time. I found the tygem estimator to be reasonably accurate and a nice time saver. It's a bit of a turn off for me.

Now, you can finally download your game records! It is in the gibo (.gib) format, which is probably less familiar to most people, but it's great to finally have that option.

There was a weird little bug when my game went to counting; it said "Zac has won by 330.5 points, do you agree?" The actual point difference was 33.5, and this was recorded correctly in my games record. Strange.

I like having different servers to play on, and play a couple of games on Tygem each week, so it's nice to see the client getting some love. If I could have a membership (depending on cost), or get the free t-points, I would be very happy. Not being able to use the quick match function all the time is a bit of a let down. I never knew I wanted such an option, but now I know it's possible I want to be able to use it!


Zac


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Post #2 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:32 am 
Judan
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Quote:
There is also a "revenge match" option within quick match, but it appears to be for members only, so I'm not entirely sure what its purpose it. Play against someone that has beaten you before?
Hi zac,

This one is easy to understand: it's for people who feel they're closely matched with the opponent they've just played, or for whatever reasons ( say, enjoyment or 'revenge', etc. :) ) and would like a rematch immediately.

Some IGS clients ( Android? ) seem to have this feature, too.

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #3 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:08 am 
Lives with ko

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Thanks Ed;

What is the difference between this and just asking for a rematch with the colours reversed as was always available?

I've made use of that plenty of times, usually when I feel like I should have won, if only I didn't make some silly mistake. It's pretty motivating to try and win the second game, but very de-motivating if you lose twice! Now that I'm thinking about it, I never accept my opponents request for another game if the game was a close win for me. I wonder what that says about my mentality.


Zac

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #4 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:12 am 
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One of the best memories playing go was when I had been playing on tygem for a few months and one night I got challenged by someone mybe a stone or 2 stronger. I thought why not,
We played about 5 games back to back, and blew me away. Their play was definitely challenging. I had to fight back at every play to keep up, because my passive play I realised was no good. That was one hell of a learning experience. I did win the last game by a couple of points and called it quits. It was a teaching game though.
I've never had a proper teacher but realise its worth it if you can get one. They can really push you to your limits and surprise yourself what you can achieve.
They were Korean and I speak only English so it emphasised the handtalk of go. Like every stone had a meaning, provoking my ability to fight.

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Post #5 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:37 am 
Judan
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What is the difference between this and just asking for a rematch with the colours reversed as was always available?
Hi zac,

I'm not familiar with Tygem's clients, but on the IGS and KGS clients without this button, to rematch means to first exit the current game, then re-initiate the matching process; I imagine this feature just provides convenience and saves some time ?

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #6 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:53 pm 
Lives with ko

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Hi all,

On reddit someone mentioned that they didn't get the update when starting their client. I just tried on my laptop, and didn't receive the update either. Try uninstalling and reinstalled, and it's the same old client. Not too sure what has happened. Maybe there were problems and they've pulled the update for now? Hopefully it'll be available for everyone some time soon.


Zac

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #7 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:07 pm 
Lives with ko

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A screenshot, showing the updated look and quick match options

Image


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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #8 Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:13 am 
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zac wrote:
Before playing a game on Tygem today, it downloaded an update.


Link?

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #9 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:32 am 
Lives with ko

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Pippen wrote:

Link?


Hi Pippen,

No link, sorry. When I started the client, it just auto-downloaded the update. It's really strange, but I haven't come across anyone that has also received this update- I posted about it on reddit too. My laptop and mac both haven't updated. It's really quite strange. My only guess is that they released the update, then pulled it for some reason? I would assume that an update for everyone must be on the way, though. I have noticed a few weird buggy things; like the counting being wrong when you have to agree to the results or not (decimal place in the wrong spot, the results does end up correct however), and also during the game some intersections turn in to squares- like you would mark up for reviewing. Maybe there are other things that need fixing.

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Post #10 Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:38 am 
Lives with ko

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EdLee wrote:
Quote:
What is the difference between this and just asking for a rematch with the colours reversed as was always available?
Hi zac,

I'm not familiar with Tygem's clients, but on the IGS and KGS clients without this button, to rematch means to first exit the current game, then re-initiate the matching process; I imagine this feature just provides convenience and saves some time ?


Hi Ed,

On Tygem and Fox, you don't need to exit the room before challenging a player to a re-match. After a game a re-match dialog box automatically opens, and if you request and they accept, the same time limits, rules etc. are used, only the colours are automatically reversed. It's quite a nice feature, and it can continue on for many games. I'm thinking that the revenge option targets your quick-match request to specific players, and so if they are also using quick-match with the same time settings you are, they will have to play you.

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #11 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:27 am 
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Jesus Christ. Now I also got this upgrade and I don't like it at all. Because now I have to pay to estimate the score which I use very often and basically play there. :(

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #12 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Pippen wrote:
Jesus Christ. Now I also got this upgrade and I don't like it at all. Because now I have to pay to estimate the score which I use very often and basically play there. :(


I'm wondering whether they plan to let users of the English client to access free points (through the "Charging" button) or allow paid memberships, or whether they don't think it's a big deal. Already I play on Fox a lot more than Tygem- more players is a big reason- but I like having options. The quick match feature would be enough for me to increase the amount I play there, the lack of estimator is enough to make me play less.

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #13 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:22 pm 
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zac wrote:
Already I play on Fox a lot more than Tygem-


How does Fox compare to Tygem?

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #14 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:06 pm 
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Unfortunately this isn't the rewrite I was hoping for. It is still MFC, still requires elevation, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #15 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:00 pm 
Lives with ko

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Pippen wrote:
zac wrote:
Already I play on Fox a lot more than Tygem-


How does Fox compare to Tygem?


Very similar in a lot of ways.

Similar strength in ranks. There are still some of the inconsistencies found on Tygem, but IME it hasn't been as bad.

The style is a generally a bit less aggressive than Tygem IME, but more aggressive than e.g. KGS. Ranking system is similar e.g. x games to promote, x games to demote. I much prefer this way to e.g. KGS

The client works well, all the most important things are translated from the Chinese. Score estimator is free, and seems to be as accurate as the Tygem one.
Admins are always available to settle disputes e.g. opponent refusing to score the game. This is very welcome- you hit the admin button, and within a minute or so the admin will arrive and make a decision. I've played about 150 games there over the last couple of months, and have had people refusing to count maybe 4 times. In all 4 cases, as soon as the admin enters the room, they have resigned.

Lots (an understatement) of very strong amateurs, pros, and strong bots playing there. I can see about 150 9D currently logged on, and about 30 of those are known professional players. Some professional games are relayed there. At any given time my, Fox will have 2 to 3 times as many players at my rank vs Tygem, at times there are up to 1000 players at my rank vs 200-300 on Tygem. Having a quick look, there appears to be even more (than 1000) around your rank, I don't know how that compares with Tygem? There is a betting system similar to Tygem, but you get free points from spending time on the server, playing games, watching etc.

Auto-match works in pretty much the same way, you negotiate settings after getting/sending a request.

Overall, I like the experience a bit more. Always lots of players, quick to get a game at my preferred time setting, no big problems with trolls, simple ranking system, nice enough client. I still play on Tygem a bit, because the style there is a bit different, but the vast majority of my games are on Fox now.

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 Post subject: Re: English Client Major Upgrade
Post #16 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:19 pm 
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The big change for me with the upgrade was that I am no longer asked to confirm that I am not accepting invitations (I usually like to observe a few bot games against pros first before I play my one game). Yes, I noticed about the score estimator. I noticed the estimator error in my most recent game, e.g., it said the margin was 22.5 when it was 2.5 stones.
My big disappointment with Tygem is that they don't answer requests for help. For example, I have tried to change my avatar to a favorite jpg. The webpage for doing that doesn't work, and when I ask for assistance I never get a reply. I even submitted one of my requests in Korean.
I noticed that users rating points column was deleted in the upgrade. I'm guessing that my "User information" page is showing my rating points, see RP/Grade. Now how one's RP/Grade is calculated, there is no explanation that I can find.
Yes, what is that manners column all about?
I think the betting is interesting, especially since I enjoy observing the bot/pro games. The betting instructions about how to bet seems to assume you have T-points (I don't) and there are no instructions as to how to obtain them. I'm a free member, but there are no instructions that I have been able to find on how to become a paid/prime member assuming that there are significant benefits.
I am hoping this forum will provide me some help. Meanwhile, I think I will take another look at Fox.

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