It is currently Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:17 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #1 Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:40 am 
Oza

Posts: 3137
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4150
We have just seen drugs tests in the world chess championship. How soon will that happen in go?

The Koreans have already introduced active measures to combat use of AI after being rocked by three instances. One was in the pro qualification event (a button-hole camera attached wirelessly to a inside-pocket phone, I gather). There was the online case of a young girl 2-dan already discussed here (banned for one year). And this July there was apparently a case of a Korean pro caught cheating online on the Chinese Fox Server in an unofficial game with a Chinese pro. I gather that was a case of detection by the server.

One result has been that Korean pros now have to submit to electronic scans on entry to events, at last in some cases.

I haven't pursued the details of these cases, partly because I find it too depressing, but someone here may be able to share more details. I expect this will also cast a shadow on the western go world.

One thing that did cheer me up a little, though, while listening to commentaries on the chess match, was that AI hasn't really had that much impact on the event, despite being years ahead of go AI. Quoting the engines makes commentators look good, but the actual players still choose to play in ways humans understand (and to blunder, of course). There may, however, be some AI effect on preparation. I have been surprised at how early (say, move 8 or 9) commentators are saying "we are now in new territory). In that case, the AI effect may seem welcome, but personally I always felt that having a team of seconds in chess was unethical (favours the one with the most resources, not necessarily the best player), so I'm in two minds about AI use there.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #2 Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:19 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2013
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 306
Was liked: 892
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
John Fairbairn wrote:
personally I always felt that having a team of seconds in chess was unethical (favours the one with the most resources, not necessarily the best player)


But isn't that essentially what has been going on in the Honinbo and other houses, or since then has evolved to teaching circles like Kitani's? And I would argue eventually the stronger individual will gravitate towards the circle with better resources.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #3 Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:26 am 
Oza

Posts: 3137
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 4150
Quote:
But isn't that essentially what has been going on in the Honinbo and other houses, or since then has evolved to teaching circles like Kitani's? And I would argue eventually the stronger individual will gravitate towards the circle with better resources.


I agree at that level. But when the resources are provided by the state, as in Soviet Union versus Fischer or as in Chinese go, I get leery.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:37 pm 
Oza

Posts: 2484
Location: DC
Liked others: 154
Was liked: 440
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
John Fairbairn wrote:
Quote:
But isn't that essentially what has been going on in the Honinbo and other houses, or since then has evolved to teaching circles like Kitani's? And I would argue eventually the stronger individual will gravitate towards the circle with better resources.


I agree at that level. But when the resources are provided by the state, as in Soviet Union versus Fischer or as in Chinese go, I get leery.


Historically at least, weren't the resources of the go-houses provided by the state?

Top
 Profile  
 
Online
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:40 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 300
Liked others: 17
Was liked: 32
Rank: panda 4 dan
IGS: kvasir
More detail about the individual cases or links would be appreciated. I guess I have some information on some of them but hidden cameras and cheating in ad-hoc games. What is going on?

One thing that is surprising to me is how many of these reports come out of Korea when there seems to be little of this elsewhere. Maybe the same 3-4 cases are being rehashed and retold?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #6 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:31 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1535
Liked others: 472
Was liked: 424
Rank: 5d
GD Posts: 1000
Not sure how relevant this is in this thread but in the USA there is a history of "cheating" in professional sports. In baseball, for example, there is a tradition of putting substances on the ball to make it more difficult to hit. And there was a case a couple of years ago where a top level team in the NFL deflated the ball to make it easier to catch. Maybe cheating is something fundamental in human beings.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:50 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1004
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 169
gowan wrote:
Not sure how relevant this is in this thread but in the USA there is a history of "cheating" in professional sports. In baseball, for example, there is a tradition of putting substances on the ball to make it more difficult to hit. .....


But for baseball, that palls behind the 1919 Chicago White Sox throwing the Wold Series (aka: The "Back Sox" scandal) and the draconian punishment imposed (life time ban). This left enough residual "memory" to appear in the plots of the musical "Damn Yankees"and the movie "Field of Dreams" half a century later where it isn't felt necessary to explain "Shoeless Joe" (Jackson)


Last edited by Mike Novack on Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Anti-AI action in Korea
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:18 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 104
Liked others: 8
Was liked: 20
I believe we had drug testing at the World Mind Sports Games in 2008 in Beijing. Certainly we signed up for it, as did the other games taking part as part of IMSA - I don't know whether any testing actually took place.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: rhwocns and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group