Life In 19x19 :: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles

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GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles http://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=18333	Page 4 of 7

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Cassandra wrote: Loops with a cycle-length of pseudo 6 ##### About compositions of one ko-shape ##### Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? X X X ? ? $$ ? ? X O X ? ? $$ ? ? O a O ? ? $$ ? ? O O O ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[/go]` SIMPLE-ko Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ ? ? ? $$ ? O ? $$ ? a ? $$ ? ? ?[/go]` Will save a lot of space... Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . M M M . . . ? ? ? . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . M Y M . . . ? W ? . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . M X M . . . ? , ? . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . M M M . . . ? ? ? . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Y . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . Q . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . ? ? ? . . . M M M . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . ? , ? . . . M O M . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . ? B ? . . . M Q M . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . ? ? ? . . . M M M . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR L15 L5} $$ {AR J5 J15} $$ {AR L17 Q15} $$ {AR Q13 Q5} $$ {AR D8 D15} $$ {AR F10 J4} $$ {AR O11 L16} $$ {AR J3 D6} $$ {AR L18 Q15} $$ {AR N10 L16} $$ {AR G11 J4} $$ {AR J2 D6} $$ {AR P13 O11} $$ {AR E8 F10}[/go] I am trying to read your diagram. Why in the upper left corner you drawed a where I expected a ? Same question with white stones in the bottom right corner. Oh sorry for the question, now have got your point => there are no more loop OC! Fine Thomas.

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: I am trying to read your diagram. Why in the upper left corner you drawed a where I expected a ? Same question with white stones in the bottom right corner. "Circle" is "inside the cycle", while "triangle" is "outside the cycle".

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: Cassandra wrote: Quiz master: "Oh, what a pity! You fell back to Yen 10,000. Nevertheless, the time with you was very entertaining. Many thanks! Good bye." Dear Gérard, Honte absolutely does not like your definition of "two-eye formation" (he does not understand it and therefore cannot apply it; I have to constantly help him), but he will nevertheless compensate you for the lost 9,990,000 yen. The only price you have to pay for this is patience. It's like using switchbacks to get to the top of a mountain. Not particularly steep, but looooooong. And it laaaaaaasts. You will then be more than satisfied with the panoramic view from above. Oops it is not MY defintion of "two-eye-formation", it the defintion given by Robert in his "Simplified Japanese Rules". Several defintion exist OC, MY defintion may be a little simplier: A "two-eye-formation" is a set of one or several strings of the same player and exactly two empty intersections so that: 1) each of the strings is adjacent to each of the two empty intersections, 2) each of the two empty intersections is adjacent only to the strings.

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O . X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` That way it seems to work no komi, no prisonners, japanese rule. Just returned from walking the labrador... The first thing Honte said was that it would be no wonder how bad you were in the game, since you passed 9 times. However, he also said that I would play a lot worse than you because it would be a miracle how well you are still there. He would like to assume 36 points komi, because that would correspond to about a 9-stone-handicap on an 11x11 board. But let's return to the interrupted game... Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O M X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` After having used his magic DOUBLE-ko spell, Honte would like to give atari with . (BTW, the result of the spell did NOT highlight that point, Honte had to identify it on his own thereafter. Please also note that Honte's magic spell is especially designed for the world of status confirmation. It must not be used during "play" without thinking, as its result might be misleading then.) However, you may perceive the use of this spell as unfair, because you do not yet know its words, and classify its use as an illicit aid. If so, Honte would like to be fair, and simply "pass". It's your turn...

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: MY defintion may be a little simplier: A "two-eye-formation" is a set of one or several strings of the same player and exactly two empty intersections so that: 1) each of the strings is adjacent to each of the two empty intersections, 2) each of the two empty intersections is adjacent only to the strings. Honte strongly suspects that the average Go player would understand much more easily that (at least) two single board points are enclosed, the occupation of which is forbidden by the rules for the opponent.

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O . X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` That way it seems to work no komi, no prisonners, japanese rule. Just returned from walking the labrador... The first thing Honte said was that it would be no wonder how bad you were in the game, since you passed 9 times. However, he also said that I would play a lot worse than you because it would be a miracle how well you are still there. He would like to assume 36 points komi, because that would correspond to about a 9-stone-handicap on an 11x11 board. But let's return to the interrupted game... Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O M X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` After having used his magic DOUBLE-ko spell, Honte would like to give atari with . (BTW, the result of the spell did NOT highlight that point, Honte had to identify it on his own thereafter. Please also note that Honte's magic spell is especially designed for the world of status confirmation. It must not be used during "play" without thinking, as its result might be misleading then.) However, you may perceive the use of this spell as unfair, because you do not yet know its words, and classify its use as an illicit aid. If so, Honte would like to be fair, and simply "pass". It's your turn... Bad move! Remember you, Thomas, play the first move while Honte might then continue the game until its end! You can make a second and last attempt

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Bad move! Remember you, Thomas, play the first move while Honte might then continue the game until its end! You can make a second and last attempt I believe in Honte! It's still your turn...

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: MY defintion may be a little simplier: A "two-eye-formation" is a set of one or several strings of the same player and exactly two empty intersections so that: 1) each of the strings is adjacent to each of the two empty intersections, 2) each of the two empty intersections is adjacent only to the strings. Honte strongly suspects that the average Go player would understand much more easily that (at least) two single board points are enclosed, the occupation of which is forbidden by the rules for the opponent. Yes Thomas OC it works also. Basically I do not have really a preference because in practice the players will agree to the result far before the complete building of the formation => I will take the simpliest wording. BTW if you use the wording "forbidden by the rules" do not forget that retaking immediatly a ko is "forbidden by the rules".

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Bad move! One of the metaphorical names for the game of Go is 手談. ("shudan") 手 is "hand". 談 is a compound of 言 and 炎. 言 is "word", "say", "speak". 炎 is two times 火. 火 is "flame", "fire". Thus 炎 is "fire", "excessive fire". Thus 談 is "fiery discussion", "leaping discussion", "spirited diccussion". Thus 手談 is "hand talk".

Author: Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:12 am ]

Post subject: Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles

Cassandra wrote:

Gérard TAILLE wrote:

Bad move!
Remember you, Thomas, play the first move while Honte might then continue the game until its end!
You can make a second and last attempt

I believe in Honte!

It's still your turn...

OK then I answer

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ | . X X X X O O X 2 X . | $$ | O O O X X O O O X X X | $$ | . . . X X O O . O X O | $$ | . X X X X O O O O O a | $$ | . . O X X O O O O O O | $$ | . O O . X O X X X X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . . X . | $$ | O O O O O X X X . X . | $$ | . O X X X X . . X X X | $$ | O O 1 X . . . . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . | $$ +------------------------[/go]

and now you to have leave the room and Honte will continue the game.

Honte is very clever, no doubt about that, and Honte knows perfectly he has to play at "a". The point is that he is in very great trouble : how Honte can put a stone at "a", with his big paws, without throwing away a great part of the stones on the board. Surely Honte will have great difficulty because the risk is very high and if it happens no doubt the referee will decide the game will be lost for Honte. In addition even if Honte manage to play at "a" the game continue, the ko fight will continue and Honte is sure to finally lost the game.

You missed the point Thomas. The only move Honte can make perfectly is the pass move!

But after the :b1:

exchange above white will win if Honte pass forever. That is the point you had to find.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ | . X X X X O O X . X . | $$ | O O O X X O O O X X X | $$ | . . . X X O O . O X O | $$ | 1 X X X X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X X O O O O O O | $$ | . O O . X O X X X X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . . X . | $$ | O O O O O X X X . X . | $$ | . O X X X X . . X X X | $$ | O O . X . . . . . . . | $$ | O . O X . . . . . . . | $$ +------------------------[/go]

This is the right move. Now Honte is quite happy to pass forever and it follows the following moves by white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ | . X X X X O O X 2 X . | $$ | O O O X X O O O X X X | $$ | . . . X X O O . O X O | $$ | 1 X X X X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X X O O O O O O | $$ | . O O . X O X X X X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . . X . | $$ | O O O O O X X X . X . | $$ | . O X X X X . . X X X | $$ | O O 4 X 8 . . . . . . | $$ | O . O X 6 . . . . . . | $$ +------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm9 black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ | . X X X X O O . O X . | $$ | O O O X X O O O X X X | $$ | . . . X X O O . O X O | $$ | X X X X X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X X O O O O O O | $$ | . O O . X O X X X X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . . X . | $$ | O O O O O X X X . X . | $$ | . O X X X X 4 6 X X X | $$ | O O O X O 2 . . 8 . . | $$ | O . O X O . . . . . . | $$ +------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm17 black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ | . X X X X O O . O X . | $$ | O O O X X O O O X X X | $$ | . . . X X O O . O X O | $$ | X X X X X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X X O O O O O O | $$ | . O O . X O X X X X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . . X . | $$ | O O O O O X X X . X . | $$ | . O X X X X O O X X X | $$ | O O O X O O 6 . O 2 4 | $$ | O . O X O . . . . . . | $$ +------------------------[/go]

Thomas : congratulation Honte, you won the game! You are very clever and you managed to avoid TRYING to put a stone on the board :clap:

Honte : Your first move was very good indeed. With it I had only to sleep and to pass forever. Thank you Thomas, you are a very good partner.

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: MY defintion may be a little simplier: A "two-eye-formation" is a set of one or several strings of the same player and exactly two empty intersections so that: 1) each of the strings is adjacent to each of the two empty intersections, 2) each of the two empty intersections is adjacent only to the strings. Honte strongly suspects that the average Go player would understand much more easily that (at least) two single board points are enclosed, the occupation of which is forbidden by the rules for the opponent. Here is a black two-eye formation with four groups! Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]B $$ +---------------------------- $$ \| . O O X X X X X X X O O . \| $$ \| O . O X O O O O O X O . O \| $$ \| O O O X O . O . O X O O O \| $$ \| O O O X O O O O O X O O O \| $$ \| X X X a X X X X X b X X X \| $$ \| X O O X O O O O O X O O X \| $$ \| X O O X O . O . O X O O X \| $$ \| X O O X O O O O O X O O X \| $$ \| X O O X X X X X X X O O X \| $$ \| X O O O O O O O O O O O X \| $$ \| X O O O O . O . O O O O X \| $$ \| X O O O O O O O O O O O X \| $$ \| X X X X X X X X X X X X X \| $$ +----------------------------[/go] BTW what is the definition of a false eye?

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: OK then I answer Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X 2 X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O a \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O 1 X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` and now you to have leave the room and Honte will continue the game. Honte is very clever, no doubt about that, and Honte knows perfectly he has to play at "a". Oh, it seems that you are not aware that Go is like tanGo. The Highlander Principle does not apply here! Quote: The point is that he is in very great trouble : how Honte can put a stone at "a", with his big paws, without throwing away a great part of the stones on the board. Do you have any idea what special skills the English breeders wanted to breed into Labradors? The ancestors of the Labradors come from the east coast of Canada. English people visiting their colony were thrilled to see large dogs in the water helping fishermen pull their nets ashore. "Swimming" and "getting something out of the water" were already part of the genes. An idea for the use of Labradors in England was quickly found: bringing ducks shot while hunting and other waterfowl that had fallen dead into the water to the hunters. Thought and done! However, the landlords were not really enthusiastic about the results of the first hunts with Labrador support. They would have liked to have their duck with no holes or missing parts on their plate. As a result, those Labradors were used in breeding that were more careful and more delicate in biting than their conspecifics. Over time, the Labradors have got a "soft mouth", i.e. they bite very gently and can also dose their bite very specifically. In contrast to many other dogs. Of course, Honte clamps a go-stone between his teeth and then lets it fall very carefully onto the board. --------------------------------- I have to admit that it is no "hand talk" on Honte's side, but he can still "talk" with you. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O . W X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| . X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O X X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O 3 O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` By the way, Honte told me that he would like to answer your move with in the lower left corner! He assumes that he will only have to use his teeth one more time. But probably you want to resign? Your turn.

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: By the way, Honte told me that he would like to answer your move with in the lower left corner! He assumes that he will only have to use his teeth one more time. But probably you want to resign? Your turn. Congratulations Honte to have managed to put a stone correctly on the board but I know that now you need to pass for some moves before you can try again to put another stones on the board => I continue the game. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| a X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O b X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` Be serious Honte which move do you prefer to see, a or b? BTW did you appreciate this problem?

Author: Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:37 pm ]

Post subject: Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles

Loops with a cycle-length of pseudo 6

##### About compositions of two ko-shapes #####

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? X X X X X ? ? $$ ? ? X O X b X ? ? $$ ? ? O a O X O ? ? $$ ? ? O O O O O ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[/go]

DOUBLE-ko

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? O ? b ? $$ ? a ? X ? $$ ? ? ? ? ?[/go]

This concentrated form will save a lot of space.
The shadowed bar in the middle is only there to achieve an odd length that suits the diagrams better than an even one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ? ? ? ? ? $$ ? O ? . ? $$ ? . ? X ? $$ ? ? ? ? ?[/go]

In the following, for the sake of simplicity, we will dispense with explicitly specifying the markings.

##### GENUINE double-ko cycle #####

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | . ? O ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . | $$ | . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? B ? . ? . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | . . p . a . . . . . . . . . p . a . . | $$ | . . s , s . . . . , . . . . s , s . . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | . ? W ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . | $$ | . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? X ? . ? . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17}[/go]

This diagram shows the GENUINE double-ko cycle.
The marked stones are those that have been played last.

Please note that the two "pass" are an integral part of a GENUINE DOUBLE-ko cycle.
The player in turn does not have a ko-shape they would be able to capture in.
Therefore, it can NOT have a GENUINE length of 6.

----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . M M M M M . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? M . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . M M . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . M M M . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? M | $$ | . ? O ? . ? . M M M M M . ? . ? O ? M | $$ | . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . M ? B ? . ? M | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . M ? ? ? ? ? M | $$ | . . p . a . . . . . . . . M p . a M . | $$ | . M s , s M . . . , . . . . s , s . . | $$ | M ? ? ? ? ? M . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | M ? W ? . ? M . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . | $$ | M ? . ? X ? M . . . . . . ? X ? . ? . | $$ | M ? ? ? ? ? . M M M M M . ? ? ? ? ? . | $$ | . M M . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . M M . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . M . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . M ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . M M M M M . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17} $$ {AR Q6 Q1} $$ {AR R6 R1} $$ {AR S6 S1} $$ {AR B15 B16} $$ {AR C15 C16} $$ {AR D15 D16}[/go]

Two of the four GENUINE moves (top, bottom) are atari at the opponent's group, so they must not be left unanswered.
You will realise that this results in the following:
While there are FOUR different combinations of the INDIVIDUAL states of each single-ko of the compound, the DOUBLE-ko as such has ONLY TWO states.

Both players are able to leave the cycle after their opponent's "pass" only.
Please note that White's exit option in the upper left is not shown in full length for the sake of clarity.

We chose Black's exit in the lower right for an exemplary case.

----------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? X ? . ? p a . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . s . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . s . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . Y . . . . . . . . . . . Y . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . p . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , s . . | $$ | . . . Q . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . s . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? W ? O ? . . . Q . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? . ? . ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . M M M M M . | $$ | . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . M e n d M . | $$ | . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . M M M M M . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR H17 D14} $$ {AR H16 E14} $$ {AR J16 E13} $$ {AR L16 P13} $$ {AR M16 P14} $$ {AR M17 Q14} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q7 Q4} $$ {AR C8 C5} $$ {AR D8 D5} $$ {AR E8 E5} $$ {AR D12 H8} $$ {AR E12 H9} $$ {AR E13 J9} $$ {AR P13 L9} $$ {AR P12 M9} $$ {AR Q12 M8} $$ {AR D12 D10} $$ {AR P13 E9} $$ {AR C10 C12}[/go]

Black has two options for his move outside the cycle:

RIGHT:
-- Black plays a "pass".
White has three options then:
-- She plays also a "pass". This will end status confirmation.
-- She captures into the double-ko. This returns into the cycle.
-- She plays a GENUINE move outside the cycle. This jumps to the left side of the diagram.
LEFT:
-- Black plays a GENUINE move outside the cycle.
White has two options then:
-- She also plays a move outside the cycle.
Black has two options then:
-- He plays another move outside the cycle. This continues the game outside the cycle.
-- He captures into the double-ko. This returns into the cycle.
-- She captures into the double-ko. This returns into the cycle.

_________________________
EDITED

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: ##### GENUINE double-ko cycle ##### Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? B p a ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . s s ? . . . . . . . ? B ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? W ? . ? . . . . . . . ? W p a ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? . s s ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17}[/go] This diagram shows the GENUINE double-ko cycle. The marked stones are those that have been played last. Please note that the two "pass" are an integral part of a GENUINE DOUBLE-ko cycle. The player in turn does not have a ko-shape they would be able to capture in. Therefore, it can NOT have a GENUINE length of 6. Not quite clear for me. I expected Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? O ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? B ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? W ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? X ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17}[/go]

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O X . X . \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O X X X \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O X O \| $$ \| a X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| O O O O O X X X . X . \| $$ \| . O X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| O O b X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| O . O X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` Be serious Honte which move do you prefer to see, a or b? BTW did you appreciate this problem? The problem was very nice, thank you. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$B Black to play and win $$ +------------------------ $$ \| . X X X X O O Z b Z c \| $$ \| O O O X X O O O Z Z Z \| $$ \| . . . X X O O . O Z O \| $$ \| d X X X X O O O O O . \| $$ \| . . O X X O O O O O O \| $$ \| . O O . X O X X X X X \| $$ \| X X X X X O X . . X . \| $$ \| P P P P P X X X . X . \| $$ \| . P X X X X . . X X X \| $$ \| P P a X . . . . . . . \| $$ \| P . P X . . . . . . . \| $$ +------------------------[/go]` As I already told you, Honte chose "a". Black can kill White's 10 stones in the lower left corner with "a", while White can capture only 6 Black stones in the upper right corner. Black will gain by this exchange. Please note that White must invest another move for taking Black's stones off the board, while Black can leave the position in the lower left as it is. Capturing into a double-ko is not a valid (ko-) threat per se! A Black move at "c" is a mistake, as it loses one point of territory unnecessarily. Black might even pass and let White live in the lower left with a move at "a". In this case, White does have only 2 points of territory (in the lower left corner). Black wins by his large territory in the lower right, even if he lets White turn the upper left corner into a seki. This is a very one-sided position.

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Gérard TAILLE wrote: I expected Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? O . . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . . X ? . . . . . . . ? B ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? W ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . . O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? X . . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17}[/go] Yes, indeed, this is another option. Thank you very much. Probably more consistent to have "pass" connected to the arrows also here in this diagram. I am sure, something will think about this overnight unconciously.

Author:	Gérard TAILLE [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles
Cassandra wrote: Gérard TAILLE wrote: I expected Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? O ? W ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? O ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? B ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . ? W ? . ? . . . . . . . ? . ? O ? . \| $$ \| . ? . ? X ? . . . . . . . ? X ? . ? . \| $$ \| . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . , . . . ? . ? . ? . . . , . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? X ? B ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . \| $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ {AR M17 Q15} $$ {AR Q12 Q9} $$ {AR Q6 M3} $$ {AR H3 D6} $$ {AR D9 D12} $$ {AR D15 H17}[/go] Yes, indeed, this is another option. Thank you very much. Probably more consistent to have "pass" connected to the arrows also here in this diagram. I am sure, something will think about this overnight unconciously. BTW with such diagram, when no marked stone appears then you know for sure that the last move were a pass weren't it? => that way the diagram is simplified.

Author: Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:29 pm ]

Post subject: Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles

Honte's magic DOUBLE-KO spell (contd)

##### What is a DOUBLE-Ko during "play"? #####

We showed in https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=266991#p266991 the only useful use of initiating (one halve of, to be precise) a DOUBLE-KO cycle is that it can prevent a currently "hot" SIMPLE-ko-shape to vanish (either by filling it or by capturing something in its surrounding).

To be honest, there is one more:
One of both opponents initiates a GENUINE TRIPLE-ko cycle of the compound. A cycle that they WILL NEVER let END.
For what purpose? They do not want to reach the GENUINE end of the game, as this would be favourable for their opponent.

##### What is a DOUBLE-Ko during "status confirmation"? #####

At first sight, it has the same features as during "play".

However, the second use case would have the purpose to NEVER reach the GENUINE end of a status confirmation, which would be DISADVANTAGEOUS for the initiating player.
But we are IN "status confirmation" in order to identify the status of groups, thus such a behaviour does not make sense at all, doesn't it?

It is common understanding that the player who is free to exit a cycle without damage, while his opponent is forced to linger in it, has the upper hand.

How can we effectively prevent the behavior described above? Well, we'll just let the double-ko vanish!

##### The WORDS of Honte's magic DOUBLE-KO spell #####

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X Q . Q X . | $$ | Y X X Q O X . | $$ | . Y O O X X . | $$ | Y O . O X . . | $$ | O O O O X . . | $$ | X X X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

This is a typical double-ko formation.
The currently "hot" ko are marked with triangles.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X Q . O X . | $$ | X X X O O X . | $$ | . X O O X X . | $$ | Y O . O X . . | $$ | O O O O X . . | $$ | X X X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+ $$ {AR C7 G7} $$ {AR A4 A7}[/go]

Honte uses his magic wand while speaking "MOVE TOWARDS YOUR ALLIES!"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X T Q O X . | $$ | X X X O O X . | $$ | Y X O O X X . | $$ | T O . O X . . | $$ | O O O O X . . | $$ | X X X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X . O O X . | $$ | X X X O O X . | $$ | X X O O X X . | $$ | . O . O X . . | $$ | O O O O X . . | $$ | X X X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

... the DOUBLE-ko has vanished and become a genuine seki.

Author: Cassandra [ Sat Aug 28, 2021 7:52 pm ]

Post subject: Re: GT territory rules:: Honte's loops and cycles

Honte's magic DOUBLE-KO spell (contd)

##### Application examples #####

Triple-ko

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . O . O X O . | $$ | O X O X . X X | $$ | X X X X X X O | $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | @ @ @ @ @ @ @ | $$ | . @ . @ # @ . | $$ | @ # @ # . # # | $$ | # # # # # # O | $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . O Q O T O . | $$ | O X T X Y X X | $$ | X X X X X X O | $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | @ @ @ @ @ @ @ | $$ | . @ @ @ . @ . | $$ | @ # . # # # # | $$ | # # # # # # O | $$ | O O O O O O O | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Genuine seki.

J89 L&D example 25

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X . X O X . | $$ | X X X O O X . | $$ | O X O . O X . | $$ | . O O O O X . | $$ | O O X X X X . | $$ | X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . # . # @ X . | $$ | # # # @ @ X . | $$ | @ # @ . @ X . | $$ | . @ @ @ @ X . | $$ | @ @ X X X X . | $$ | X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X Y T O X . | $$ | X X X O O X . | $$ | T X O . O X . | $$ | Q O O O O X . | $$ | O O X X X X . | $$ | X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . # # . @ X . | $$ | # # # @ @ X . | $$ | . # @ . @ X . | $$ | @ @ @ @ @ X . | $$ | @ @ X X X X . | $$ | X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Genuine seki.

J89 L&D example 8

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | O . O . O X . X O | $$ | O O O O X X X O O | $$ | X X O X . X O O . | $$ | . X O O X X O . . | $$ | X X X X O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | W . W . W Z . Z O | $$ | W W W W Z Z Z O O | $$ | X X W Z . Z O O . | $$ | . X W W Z Z O . . | $$ | X X X X O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | O . O Q T X . X O | $$ | O O O O X X X O O | $$ | X X O T Y X O O . | $$ | . X O O X X O . . | $$ | X X X X O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | W . W W . Z . Z O | $$ | W W W W Z Z Z O O | $$ | X X W . Z Z O O . | $$ | . X W W Z Z O . . | $$ | X X X X O O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Me ari me nashi.

J89 L&D example 16

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | . O O . O . O X . X O . O | $$ | O X X O O O O X X O O O O | $$ | X X . X X X O X O . O X X | $$ | . . X , X O X X X O O X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . X O X X . | $$ | O O O O X O X X X O X . X | $$ | . . . O O O O O O X X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | . P P . P . P B . B P . P | $$ | P X X P P P P B B P P P P | $$ | X X . X X X P B P . P X X | $$ | . . X , X O B B B P P X X | $$ | X X X X X O B . B P X X . | $$ | O O O O X O B B B P X . X | $$ | . . . O O O O O O X X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | . O O . O . O X Y T O . O | $$ | O X X O O O O X X O O O O | $$ | X X . X X X O X T Q O X X | $$ | . . X , X O X X X O O X X | $$ | X X X X X O X . X O X X . | $$ | O O O O X O X X X O X . X | $$ | . . . O O O O O O X X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | . P P . P . P B B . P . P | $$ | P X X P P P P B B P P P P | $$ | X X . X X X P B . P P X X | $$ | . . X , X O B B B P P X X | $$ | X X X X X O B . B P X X . | $$ | O O O O X O B B B P X . X | $$ | . . . O O O O O O X X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Left: Two eyes vs. one eye. => Right: Dissolving of the temporary seki.

J89 L&D example 17

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | X X X . O X . X O . O X . | $$ | . O O O O X X O O O O X . | $$ | O O X X O X O . O X X X X | $$ | . O X O X X X O O X . . . | $$ | O X X O O X O X X X X X X | $$ | X . X O X X O O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O X . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X X X O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O O O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | B B B . P B . B P . P X . | $$ | . P P P P B B P P P P X . | $$ | P P X X P B P . P X X X X | $$ | . P X O B B B P P X . . . | $$ | P X X O O B O X X X X X X | $$ | X . X O B B O O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O B . B O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O B B B O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O O O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | X X X . O X Y T O . O X . | $$ | . O O O O X X O O O O X . | $$ | O O X X O X T Q O X X X X | $$ | . O X O X X X O O X . . . | $$ | O X X O O X O X X X X X X | $$ | X . X O X X O O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O X . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O X X X O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O O O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------+ $$ | B B B . P B B . P . P X . | $$ | . P P P P B B P P P P X . | $$ | P P X X P B . P P X X X X | $$ | . P X O B B B P P X . . . | $$ | P X X O O B O X X X X X X | $$ | X . X O B B O O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O B . B O . . . . . | $$ | . . X O B B B O . . . . . | $$ | X X X O O O O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Left: Dead bent-four-in-the-corner. => Right: Dissolving of the temporary seki.

J89 L&D example 18

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | . O . X O X O . . | $$ | O X X X O X O O . | $$ | . X O O O X X O O | $$ | X X O O . O X X O | $$ | O O O . O X . X O | $$ | X X O O X . X X O | $$ | . X X O O X X O O | $$ | X X X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . | $$ +-------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | . W . Z W Z O . . | $$ | W Z Z Z W Z O O . | $$ | . Z W W W Z Z O O | $$ | Z Z W W . W Z Z O | $$ | W W W . W Z . Z O | $$ | X X W W Z . Z Z O | $$ | . X X W W Z Z O O | $$ | X X X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . | $$ +-------------------+[/go]

Expected / intended result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | . O . X O X O . . | $$ | O X X X O X O O . | $$ | . X O O O X X O O | $$ | X X O O Q T X X O | $$ | O O O . O X . X O | $$ | X X O O T Y X X O | $$ | . X X O O X X O O | $$ | X X X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . | $$ +-------------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-------------------+ $$ | . W . Z W Z O . . | $$ | W Z Z Z W Z O O . | $$ | . Z W W W Z Z O O | $$ | Z Z W W W . Z Z O | $$ | W W W . W Z . Z O | $$ | X X W W . Z Z Z O | $$ | . X X W W Z Z O O | $$ | X X X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . | $$ +-------------------+[/go]

Left: Dead bent-four-in-the-corner. => Right: Dissolving of the temporary seki.

"HIGHLANDER" director's cut - for adults only

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | X X . X . X O . O . O | $$ | X O X X X X O O O O X | $$ | O O O O X O O X O X X | $$ | O O O O O X X . X X . | $$ | . . O O X O X X X X X | $$ | . . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O O O O X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | B B . B . B P . P . P | $$ | B P B B B B P P P P B | $$ | P P P P B P P B P B B | $$ | P P P P P B B . B B . | $$ | . . P P X O B B B B B | $$ | . . . P X O O O O O O | $$ | P . . P X O O O O O O | $$ | P P P P X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Viewed from TEA City on a foggy day.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | X X . X . X O . O Q T | $$ | X O X X X X O O O O X | $$ | O O O O X O O T O X X | $$ | O O O O O X X Y X X . | $$ | . . O O X O X X X X X | $$ | . . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O O O O X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | # # . # . # @ . @ @ . | $$ | # @ # # # # @ @ @ @ # | $$ | @ @ @ @ # @ @ . @ # # | $$ | @ @ @ @ @ # # # # # . | $$ | . . @ @ X O # # # # # | $$ | . . . @ X O O O O O O | $$ | @ . . @ X O O O O O O | $$ | @ @ @ @ X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Viewed from TEA City in bright sunshine.

"HIGHLANDER" defused version

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | X X . X . X O . O . O | $$ | X O X X X X O O O O X | $$ | O O O O X O O X O X X | $$ | O O O O O X X . X X . | $$ | . X O O X O X X X X X | $$ | . X . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O O O O X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | Z Z . Z . Z W . W . W | $$ | Z W Z Z Z Z W W W W Z | $$ | W W W W Z W W Z W Z Z | $$ | W W W W W Z Z . Z Z . | $$ | . Z W W X W Z Z Z Z Z | $$ | . Z . W X O O O O O O | $$ | W . . W X O O O O O O | $$ | W W W W X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Viewed from GT City on a foggy day.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | X X . X . X O . O @ T | $$ | X O X X X X O O O O X | $$ | O O O O X O O X O X X | $$ | O O O O O X X # T X . | $$ | . X O O X O X X X X X | $$ | . X . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O . . O X O O O O O O | $$ | O O O O X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | # # . # . # @ . @ @ . | $$ | # @ # # # # @ @ @ @ # | $$ | @ @ @ @ # @ @ . @ # # | $$ | @ @ @ @ @ # # # # # . | $$ | . # @ @ X O # # # # # | $$ | . # . @ X O O O O O O | $$ | @ . . @ X O O O O O O | $$ | @ @ @ @ X O O O O O O | $$ | X X X X X X X X O O O | $$ | X . X X X X X X O O . | $$ | . X X X X X X X O . O | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Viewed from GT City in bright sunshine.

GT City's Central Park - seen from above

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------- $$ | O X . X . O . | $$ | . O X X X O O | $$ | O . O O X X O | $$ | O O O . O X O | $$ | X X O O X X O | $$ | . X X O O O . | $$ | X . X X X O O | $$ -----------------[/go]

In the morning mist.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------- $$ | W Z C Z C W C | $$ | C W Z Z Z W W | $$ | W C W W Z Z W | $$ | W W W C W Z W | $$ | X X W W Z Z W | $$ | . X X W W W C | $$ | X . X X X W W | $$ -----------------[/go]

Yesterday evening - illuminated.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | O T Y X . O . | $$ | . O X X X O O | $$ | O . O O X X O | $$ | O O O Q T X O | $$ | X X O O X X O | $$ | . X X O O O . | $$ | X . X X X O O | $$ -----------------[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | W . Z Z . W . | $$ | . W Z Z Z W W | $$ | W . W W Z Z W | $$ | W W W W . Z W | $$ | X X W W Z Z W | $$ | . X X W W W . | $$ | X . X X X W W | $$ -----------------[/go]

Two eyes vs. no eye.

++++++++++++++++++++

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | . X . X . O . | $$ | X O X X X O O | $$ | O O O O X X O | $$ | O O O . O X O | $$ | X X O O X X O | $$ | . X X O O O . | $$ | X . X X X O O | $$ +---------------+[/go]

Ten o'clock in the morning. Some people are strolling around.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | Y X . X . O . | $$ | T O X X X O O | $$ | O O O O X X O | $$ | O O O Q T X O | $$ | X X O O X X O | $$ | . X X O O O . | $$ | X . X X X O O | $$ -----------------[/go]

After Honte used his magic wand...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------+ $$ | Z Z . Z . W . | $$ | . W Z Z Z W W | $$ | W W W W Z Z W | $$ | W W W W . Z W | $$ | X X W W Z Z W | $$ | . X X W W W . | $$ | X . X X X W W | $$ -----------------[/go]

Me ari me nashi.

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