Life In 19x19 :: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow

The referee decided to count this game as lost by Shikshin/Shikshina. But Surin/Kovaleva pair decided to resign, instead of accepting this victory as a present.

Game between Shikshin/Shikshina and Surin/Kovaleva - 2 strongest pairs of the tournament.
Both pairs had less than 1 min on their clocks. Because of time pressure Svetlana Shikshina decided to press the clock after making the move, but before she removed all prisoners.

That time Shikshin/Shikshina pair was lot of points ahead (30+).
The referee decided to count this game as lost by Shikshin/Shikshina.

But Surin/Kovaleva pair decided to resign, instead of accepting this victory as a present.

A mistake, she should pause the clock to remove the prisoners, though not all clocks provide this option in an accessible way.

what is the ruleset for EPGC?
I heard, they use International PairGo rules, instead of EGF rules. Is that correct?

Author:	breakfast [ Sat May 30, 2015 9:07 am ]
Post subject:	Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
Few weeks ago in Moscow we had European PairGo Championship. The tournament format is a bit strange, because we play it without byoyomi (45 min basic time per pair). Let me describe one episode Game between Shikshin/Shikshina and Surin/Kovaleva - 2 strongest pairs of the tournament. Both pairs had less than 1 min on their clocks. Because of time pressure Svetlana Shikshina decided to press the clock after making the move, but before she removed all prisoners. That time Shikshin/Shikshina pair was lot of points ahead (30+). The referee decided to count this game as lost by Shikshin/Shikshina. But Surin/Kovaleva pair decided to resign, instead of accepting this victory as a present. Any comments? If we can find any rules experts here (Robert?) ... How to judge this situation according to EGF rules and Japanese 1989 rules? I know that in Europe illegal moves are allowed, for example if you take the ko, without playing a ko threat - you can just take your move back and play the ko threat first

Author:	Cassandra [ Sat May 30, 2015 9:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
This is a question of TOURNAMENT rules, not of PLAYING rules, so J1989 will not help here. I suppose that there might be an option in the EGF tournament rules -- probably limited to phases of Byoyomi, or Sudden Death, in general, -- probably to be used for a given minimum number of captured stones only: 1. Play your move. 2. Neutralise the clock (i.e. it stops for BOTH sides). 3. Remove the prisoners. 4. Start the opponent's thinking time. But Robert will know much better ... "Standard" procedure will consist of steps 1., 3., and 4., only. This means that you have to remove your prisoners within your own thinking time. Starting the opponent's thinking time before having removed all of the captured stones would violate tournament rules, because you did not finish your own turn beforehand.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Sat May 30, 2015 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
breakfast wrote: The referee decided to count this game as lost by Shikshin/Shikshina. But Surin/Kovaleva pair decided to resign, instead of accepting this victory as a present. From your description, it seems that the referee decision preceded the "resignation". Since the referee decision ended the game by fixing the game result (subject to appeals arbitration if called), the resignation was ineffective. Pair go has additional tournament rules with the idea of valuing friendly sportsmanship high. However, it is difficult to apply in this case because several aspects of the incident were involved. Due to this ambiguity, I would rule due to the precedence of fixed game result. Was the referee decision wise? Pressing the clock before removing prisoners violates the pair go spirit, so a referee decision against the Shikshin/Shikshina pair makes sense. However, in the spirit of pair go, the referee could have issued softer arbitration provided the premature clock pressing was accidental and not intentional.

Author:	breakfast [ Sat May 30, 2015 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
Robert, can you tell us please, what is the ruleset for EPGC? I heard, they use International PairGo rules, instead of EGF rules. Is that correct? The main referee used a book with PairGo rules, but I am not able to find it on your website with Go rules collection

Author:	HermanHiddema [ Sat May 30, 2015 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
breakfast wrote: Game between Shikshin/Shikshina and Surin/Kovaleva - 2 strongest pairs of the tournament. Both pairs had less than 1 min on their clocks. Because of time pressure Svetlana Shikshina decided to press the clock after making the move, but before she removed all prisoners. A mistake, she should pause the clock to remove the prisoners, though not all clocks provide this option in an accessible way. Quote: That time Shikshin/Shikshina pair was lot of points ahead (30+). The referee decided to count this game as lost by Shikshin/Shikshina. Too harsh a penalty, IMO. The referee could have simply compensated Surin/Kovaleva for the lost time and let them play on. Quote: But Surin/Kovaleva pair decided to resign, instead of accepting this victory as a present. Very commendable, very much in the spirit of sportsmanship that Pair Go tries to promote. Seems to me the end result was fair.

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Author:	Javaness2 [ Sat May 30, 2015 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
These rules might be the ones to begin with http://www.eurogofed.org/pairgo/pairrules.htm , then http://www.eurogofed.org/egf/tourrules.htm I hope both pairs were correctly dressed.

Author:	breakfast [ Sat May 30, 2015 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
HermanHiddema wrote: A mistake, she should pause the clock to remove the prisoners, though not all clocks provide this option in an accessible way. It's not allowed by pairgo rules. I asked the referee during the opening ceremony. Have to remove prisoners, using your own time - he said.

Author:	RobertJasiek [ Sat May 30, 2015 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Episode from the European PairGo championship in Moscow
breakfast wrote: what is the ruleset for EPGC? I heard, they use International PairGo rules, instead of EGF rules. Is that correct? http://www.pairgo.or.jp/setumei/rule.htm Not instead of the EGF General Tournament Rules, but - as part of the particular tournament rules - in addition and, in EGF tournaments, without the Japanese 1989 Rules but (unless the particular tournament announces differently) with Verbal European-Japanese Rules.

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