Life In 19x19http://lifein19x19.com/ Stone scoring and AGA ruleshttp://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=19138 Page 1 of 1

 Author: RobertJasiek [ Mon May 01, 2023 1:07 am ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules Stone scoring can be counted simpler with one of my following procedures:- Prisoner-counting for stone-scoring.https://senseis.xmp.net/?PrisonerCounti ... oneScoringAGA style. Count white prisoner stones minus black prisoner stones.- Pairs of one black stone and one white stone are taken off the board as long as possible.- Point-symmetrical arrangement of all stones on the board. The black respectively white stones are put on the upper respectively lower half of the board.

 Author: tundra [ Mon May 01, 2023 7:38 pm ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules RobertJasiek wrote:Stone scoring can be counted simpler with one of my following procedures:- Prisoner-counting for stone-scoring.https://senseis.xmp.net/?PrisonerCounti ... oneScoringAGA style. Count white prisoner stones minus black prisoner stones.- Pairs of one black stone and one white stone are taken off the board as long as possible.- Point-symmetrical arrangement of all stones on the board. The black respectively white stones are put on the upper respectively lower half of the board.Well, most people are rather biased towards their own creations, and I am probably no exception. But the problem I have with these schemes, as mentioned above in my first post, is that they require the players to play out the game in full, until there is no room for any more stones. On a 19x19 board, I think this could be a very dull phase of the game, possibly dull enough to turn people away from stone scoring altogether. Of course, it may be possible to end the game early with these methods, if one wishes only to determine the winner and loser. But if one wants an exact score, it seems that they require the game to be played out in full. Perhaps I should modify that a little: If one player makes a mistake in this filling-in stage, and reduces one of his territories to one eye, that could be entertaining. But this is unlikely with experienced players There may also be an issue, that some players will not care for unusual scoring methods. It may make the game feel too different from more orthodox go. So I am hoping that my modest proposal might be more acceptable to go players. But in the end, it probably does not really matter. Though I would like to see go played more frequently using the old group tax rules, perhaps even with a major tournament using them, I do not see any signs that such things will ever happen.

 Author: RobertJasiek [ Mon May 01, 2023 10:23 pm ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules The purpose of stone scoring is to get as many stones on the board as possible so do not complain about that if you want stone scoring! :)

 Author: tundra [ Tue May 02, 2023 1:07 pm ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules RobertJasiek wrote:The purpose of stone scoring is to get as many stones on the board as possible so do not complain about that if you want stone scoring! Well, in principle, yes, stone scoring implies placing as many stones on the board as possible. But it seems to be historically inaccurate to suppose that this was done in practice. We have records of old games played under the old Chinese rules (i.e., using group tax), and so far, I have never seen one in which the board is filled to its limit. Players were far too intelligent to spend their time doing this. They would stop as soon as the status of every point on the board had been decided, whether or not it was occupied by a physical stone. It is conceivable, I suppose, that beginners might have been taught to play as many stones as possible on a smaller board, at least until they learned to recognize some of the basic living and dead shapes. But I see no evidence that experienced players would bother doing so. The notion that ancient Chinese players would continue on and on after the game was really over, playing uninteresting moves, seems to be a modern fantasy

 Author: RobertJasiek [ Tue May 02, 2023 8:43 pm ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules tundra wrote:Players were far too intelligentIt is not a matter of intelligence but of preference.

 Author: tundra [ Tue May 02, 2023 10:09 pm ] Post subject: Re: Stone scoring and AGA rules RobertJasiek wrote:tundra wrote:Players were far too intelligentIt is not a matter of intelligence but of preference.As you wish.