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 Post subject: CEGO information
Post #1 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 3:54 am 
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A long time ago now, there was a thread in which people asked for details about how the EGF's new CEGO contract would work in the financial sense. Just recently, some clarification was given. The details are split into 4 parts, and I have reworded them so that they are actually clearer. When I got to the end of the document I found something that was not clear at all to me, so I have highlighted this in the hope that somebody else can clarify it. The reason I am posting this is because I think it is important to eliminate false speculation about the nature of the contract, which I imagine is itself caused by people not understanding the contract. In light of that, I really hope that I have messed up something in my outline of the contract.

Section 1 - Academic System

The money in section 1 relates to the cost of housing and training the European (trainee) professionals who are studying in China with CEGO. They also appear to cover the expense of sending a teacher to Europe as well. In total, for 2014, this cost around 115,000 Euro. The exact figures and breakdown are available to EGF members through normal official channels.
The money in Section 1 is a credit.


Section 2 - Support for EGF projects

The money in section 2 covers costs such as marketing, PR, broadcasting for promotion of, and events within, the new European professional system. The initial funding for 2014 is 20,000 Euro. This figure will be reduced annually by 2,500 Euro.
The money in Section 2 is a credit.

Section 3 - Yearly Sponsorship

The money in section 3 also covers costs directly related to the European professional qualification process/tournament(s).
This will always number 5,000 Euros. Unless the qualification tournaments are played outside of the academic training period, the offer of this money may be withdrawn. This the qualification tournaments should take place between March and September.
The money in section 3 is a grant.

Section 4 - Annual Grand Slam Tournament

The money in section 4 relates to the conduct of the annual Grand Slam tournament, to which participants are qualified through Bonus Point tournaments and/or professional status. In 2015, and in each following year, this money will amount to 40,000 Euro per annum.
Note that the full scope of section 4 is not yet defined.
The money in section 4 is a grant.

So to make it clear, a grant does not need to be repayed, but a credit does. This leads us to section 5, the repayment details.

Section 5 - Repayment of money given as a credit

Every year, the EGF must pay to CEGO 20% of its own unassigned income. What is an unassigned income? This is what remains of its income after we discount money originating from other sponsors. So for example the tournament sponsorship from Pandanet is not counted, be that for the support for Pair Go, Team Go, or EGC events.
Furthermore, 50% of the money given to the EGF as a 'management fee' for Bonus Point tournaments, must be given directly to CEGO.

This repayment appears to feed into the money given by CEGO in section 2. I do not fully understand the details here, given what was written earlier - but maybe somebody else does.

For 2014 the EGF will have an income of around 13,000 Euro, and so will repay 2,650 Euro
EGF income from the Bonus Point tournaments is shown as 6,000 Euro, so 3,000 Euro will be repaid. I am not aware of any Bonus Point tournaments existing, so I do not understand those figures, but maybe somebody else does.

So the transfer in section 2 is supposed to be reduced by 5,650 Euro. So instead of 17,500 Euro, the EGF will receive around 12,000 Euro from CEGO.

By 2022 all financial payment and repayment by both sides will cease, nomatter if balances still exist on either side.

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm 
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It is great to see that finally somebody makes a serious attempt at understanding and explaining the finances. Many thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:35 pm 
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Thanks for taking the time to do this write-up about CEGO and EGF finances. It saves the vast majority of (European) go players the headache of reading the original document (or even finding it, for that matter), while allowing us to come up with an informed opinion instead of relying on hearsay.

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #4 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:47 am 
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New update! There is now a level C event in the grand prix. (I wonder when it was introduced.) At level C you pay the EGF €400 to enter your event in the grand prix.

http://www.eurogofed.org/EuropeanGrandPrix/

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #5 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Javaness2 wrote:
A long time ago now, there was a thread in which people asked for details about how the EGF's new CEGO contract would work in the financial sense. Just recently, some clarification was given. The details are split into 4 parts, and I have reworded them so that they are actually clearer. When I got to the end of the document I found something that was not clear at all to me, so I have highlighted this in the hope that somebody else can clarify it. The reason I am posting this is because I think it is important to eliminate false speculation about the nature of the contract, which I imagine is itself caused by people not understanding the contract. In light of that, I really hope that I have messed up something in my outline of the contract.

Section 1 - Academic System

The money in section 1 relates to the cost of housing and training the European (trainee) professionals who are studying in China with CEGO. They also appear to cover the expense of sending a teacher to Europe as well. In total, for 2014, this cost around 115,000 Euro. The exact figures and breakdown are available to EGF members through normal official channels.
The money in Section 1 is a credit.


Section 2 - Support for EGF projects

The money in section 2 covers costs such as marketing, PR, broadcasting for promotion of, and events within, the new European professional system. The initial funding for 2014 is 20,000 Euro. This figure will be reduced annually by 2,500 Euro.
The money in Section 2 is a credit.

Section 3 - Yearly Sponsorship

The money in section 3 also covers costs directly related to the European professional qualification process/tournament(s).
This will always number 5,000 Euros. Unless the qualification tournaments are played outside of the academic training period, the offer of this money may be withdrawn. This the qualification tournaments should take place between March and September.
The money in section 3 is a grant.

Section 4 - Annual Grand Slam Tournament

The money in section 4 relates to the conduct of the annual Grand Slam tournament, to which participants are qualified through Bonus Point tournaments and/or professional status. In 2015, and in each following year, this money will amount to 40,000 Euro per annum.
Note that the full scope of section 4 is not yet defined.
The money in section 4 is a grant.

So to make it clear, a grant does not need to be repayed, but a credit does. This leads us to section 5, the repayment details.

Section 5 - Repayment of money given as a credit

Every year, the EGF must pay to CEGO 20% of its own unassigned income. What is an unassigned income? This is what remains of its income after we discount money originating from other sponsors. So for example the tournament sponsorship from Pandanet is not counted, be that for the support for Pair Go, Team Go, or EGC events.
Furthermore, 50% of the money given to the EGF as a 'management fee' for Bonus Point tournaments, must be given directly to CEGO.

This repayment appears to feed into the money given by CEGO in section 2. I do not fully understand the details here, given what was written earlier - but maybe somebody else does.

For 2014 the EGF will have an income of around 13,000 Euro, and so will repay 2,650 Euro
EGF income from the Bonus Point tournaments is shown as 6,000 Euro, so 3,000 Euro will be repaid. I am not aware of any Bonus Point tournaments existing, so I do not understand those figures, but maybe somebody else does.

So the transfer in section 2 is supposed to be reduced by 5,650 Euro. So instead of 17,500 Euro, the EGF will receive around 12,000 Euro from CEGO.

By 2022 all financial payment and repayment by both sides will cease, nomatter if balances still exist on either side.


Good info, thanks.
A few quick questions:

1. Will the credit acrue over the years?
I mean - they give EGF credit, and EGF repays a fraction of it each year. Projecting this down the line, two things can happen: (a) EGF at some point will make enough money that the 20% (or whatever) will be larger than the credit given, so EGF start repaying past due at this point and climbing back into the black, or (b) the debt will continue to grow until EGF owes millions and millions of Euros, and what then? Will the unpaid debt be forgiven, or will other concessions be expected? Personally, I find (a) not very likely in foreseeable future, and (b) sounds scary. Not that its any of my beeswax, just curious.

2. Or (c) will the reminder become a grant (or forgiven) after a specified period of time?
If so, this should be specified somewhere.

3. Speaking of which - is there a good on-line source document for any of that? And who owns it?

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #6 Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:19 pm 
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Bantari, I think the last line of the original post points to option c:

Quote:
By 2022 all financial payment and repayment by both sides will cease, nomatter if balances still exist on either side.

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #7 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:41 am 
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jeromie wrote:
Bantari, I think the last line of the original post points to option c:

Quote:
By 2022 all financial payment and repayment by both sides will cease, nomatter if balances still exist on either side.

Do-oh... So I read the whole thing, and like an idiot miss the last sentence. Heh...
Embarassing. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #8 Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:01 pm 
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I believe that if you could find a couple of chinese billionaires that are interested in go, they could donate like couple of million euros into the EGF fond in order to promote go in Europe.

Since they are so rich it would be the same as if I were to give 1$ to someone.

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 Post subject: Re: CEGO information
Post #9 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:33 am 
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Krama wrote:
I believe that if you could find a couple of chinese billionaires that are interested in go, they could donate like couple of million euros into the EGF fond in order to promote go in Europe.

Since they are so rich it would be the same as if I were to give 1$ to someone.


Even if some Chinese billionaires could be found who were 1,000,000 times richer than you, I assure you that they wouldn't give away 1,000,000 Euros away as casually as you might give away one Euro. That is a lot of money no matter where it is sourced from, and they didn't get to be billionaires by being casual about money.

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