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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #101 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:26 pm 
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shapenaji wrote:
In chess, the popular clock is the Chronos (a fantastic clock, leaves the ing clock in the dust), and though it has the functionality, even when playing super fast, it's rarely ever used audibly.

Personally, I hate the audible alert, it's distracting to the other player, and serves mostly to disrupt my own thought process. You have a visual display, use it.

Of course, the advantage of the audible warning(s) is that you can keep your eye on the board. For people who use visual context when reading (I do), looking away can disrupt the thought process.

Personally I think a simple beep when a certain time remaining is reached, is appropriate, and not too intrusive to other players. In a Fischer timed tournament game, a 30 or 60 second warning would suit me fine. Others might prefer something less. This is configurable on the GT2 and can be agreed by the players before the game starts, or mandated by the tournament.

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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #102 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Shapenaji: One still needs something to remind him/herself when he/she is running short of time even using Fischer timing or whatever timing, if the lost on time is because that he/sher (van Zeist, here) failed to notice the time there.

These are totally two different issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #103 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Remember the game Mingjiu Jiang lost on time to that young Canadian kid (Gan S..)a year or more ago? Late middle game, with a secure lead, but he lost. He didn't notice that Byoyomi was starting, I think he expected KGS to make a beeping sound if this happened.

Seems that some players like audible noises.

There was also some incident with Feng Yun about 2 or more years prior to that one. Se was unfamiliar with the clock and there was some argument resulting from that. It was a fancy digital clock I think :)

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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #104 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:57 pm 
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kokomi wrote:
Shapenaji: One still needs something to remind him/herself when he/she is running short of time even using Fischer timing or whatever timing, if the lost on time is because that he/sher (van Zeist, here) failed to notice the time there.

These are totally two different issues.


Why? You don't need audible confirmation when you're using too much time per move during your main time... you're expected to economize your time.

With J-Byoyomi, the inability to economize your time at the end of the game makes some form of audible warning more desirable (since you only have 30 seconds per move, you can't play a few quick moves to gain thinking time), you're more likely to run into the hard barrier.

In Fischer, the economization never stops, and so no audible warning should be necessary. Unless you plan on having the audible warning all game.

I guess that's the bulk of my concern, if you're going to have an audible warning, it should be given all game. The atmosphere of the game should not suddenly change in the endgame.

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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #105 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:57 pm 
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Javaness wrote:
Remember the game Mingjiu Jiang lost on time to that young Canadian kid (Gan S..)a year or more ago? Late middle game, with a secure lead, but he lost. He didn't notice that Byoyomi was starting, I think he expected KGS to make a beeping sound if this happened.


This is good reminder how hard Japanese byouyomi actually is to control even for experienced players. There are just too many rare events that may go wrong and what will lead to unnecessary time losses.

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 Post subject: Re: Dinerchtein vs van Zeist
Post #106 Posted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:16 pm 
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The warning is there to tell player that he'll lose the game if he doesn't make moves in xx seconds. It doesn't matter which timing you are using. It does not neccessary to be a sound. The important thing is player notices that he may has time issue.

What does it do with how you organize your time in main?

Van Zeist is not losting on time because he did have enough time to make his move, it's because he's unware of lacking of time.

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