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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #34 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:27 pm 
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I saw this today https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/446
Quote:
League A and top League B teams will play special season 2019
Qualification tournaments:

14-16 June in Serbia: France, Hungary, Israel, Romania, Serbia, Austria
19-21 June in Czech Republic: Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Czechia, Germany, Italy


This means League A and top two teams from League B play it out. It isn't clear how many qualify though. Does anyone know the plan?

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #35 Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:59 pm 
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Four?

https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/4 wrote:
§14. Finals at the European Go Congress
(1) The matches are played on four real boards without handicap, Japanese rules and the parameters of §11 (5) and (6)
(2) Each of the four teams has to play three games (round robin)

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #36 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:09 am 
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I think that what you're quoting there only relates to the finals which are played at the European Go Congress. The announcement on the PGETC page seems to refer to some new competition, but the format or objectives of that competition are not really explained.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #37 Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:08 am 
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From an email about this I received last year as PGETC team captain:

EGF wrote:
Here are the details about the new face-to-face tournaments, scheduled for June 2019:

-- Two seperate EGF-tournaments, each with 6 country-teams on four boards, 5 rounds round-robin
-- All teams of league A and the top two (after 9 rounds online games) of league B will be invited
-- Each team gets 1.000 Euro financial support for travelling/accomodation
-- Organizers for these top-tournaments with at least 24 players are welcomed. 15/16, 22/23 or 29/30 June possible
-- Time setting aequivalent to the online games, so three games on Saturday and two games on Sunday would work
-- Per tournament the 6 teams will be defined in the following way:
-- drawing 2 teams out of top 4 of the final chart after 9 online-rounds league A in May 2019
-- drawing 2 teams out of places 5 to 8 of the final chart of league A in May 2019
-- drawing 2 teams out of places 9/10 from league A and 1/2 of league B after online-games in May 2019
-- Teams from top 4 start with 2 points, teams from 5-8 start with 1 point, last 4 start with zero points
-- After 5 rounds round robin, including the different start-points explained in the upper line, in each tournament
-- Top 2 qualify for the finals at EGC2019 in Brussels
-- Top 5 are qualified for league A in the next season
-- The team on 6th place after 5 rounds will play in league B in the season 2019/2020
-- Each of the four teams qualified for the finals in Brussels get € 500 financial support for travelling/accomodation


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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #38 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:27 am 
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This new system means there's scope for more fluidity between leagues, and even a high place finisher in league A can get demoted if they do very badly in this real-life tournament. And by the luck of the draw both the top 2 from league B (Serbia and Austria) are in the same group so one of them is guaranteed promotion (and both could), whereas in the other group it's only league A teams and 1 is guaranteed demotion. I believe one rationale for this real life event is if teams have been cheating with AI online they might do well then but it will be much harder in this real life tournament which decides the top 4 for the finals.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #39 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:49 am 
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Is this tournament replacing League A, or is it complimentary to League A?

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #40 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:15 am 
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It's complimentary. An in between phase between the online games and the finals.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #41 Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:05 am 
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And hopefully this crap is a one time show and next season the league will be meaningfull again.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #42 Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:04 am 
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https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/eu ... ps/draw/93

So this extra league meant that Hungary, who came 2nd in the regular season with 16 match points (same as #1 Russia but fewer board points) from 6 wins, 2 draw, 1 loss, far ahead of 6th place Romania who got only 8 match points from 1 win, 5 draw, 3 loss, ended up not going through to the finals and Romania do as they tied on extra league points (starting on 1 fewer from main league position) but pipped Hungary to 2nd place with board points tiebreak. Looks like Catalin Taranu playing for Romania in this event but not the main league might have made the difference (but well done to Israel's Amir Fragman for beating him!). I thought Diana Koszegi not being able to play for Hungary on the board might have made a difference, but looks like she didn't play online this season either.

France, 3rd in main season, came comfortably top of the extra league even without Dai Junfu.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #43 Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:54 am 
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Indeed, at first sight this new dual mini league play-off stage seems to make League A kind of pointless. I was a bit thrown by the whole thing. Still, I'm glad Romania qualified, they deserved to.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #44 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:36 am 
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The 2nd qualification league starts today. Russia are missing Ilya, Poland Mateusz and Ukraine Artem as they are playing in the Chinese C league at the moment. Bit of a scheduling fail. Or testing squad depth if you are a glass half full kind of guy.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #45 Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:50 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
The 2nd qualification league starts today. Russia are missing Ilya, Poland Mateusz and Ukraine Artem as they are playing in the Chinese C league at the moment. Bit of a scheduling fail. Or testing squad depth if you are a glass half full kind of guy.


Ouch. That's really going to hurt the qualification chances of the 3 favourites in that pool.
It's a bit funny, as this is the pool that was wasn't meant to ensure Italy got relegated.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #46 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:10 am 
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https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/eu ... ps/draw/98

It isn't very clear to me how the points are allocated.
Ukraine 1 win 1 draw = 5 points
Czechia 1 win 1 draw = 4 points
Russia 2 draws = 4 points

This feels like one of those Facebook meme where you have to work out that a bio banana is worth 2 extra, but the equals sign actually means cube root. Here the trick must be to do with the initial positions in the league.

The other thing to do note is the composition of the Italian team.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #47 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:44 am 
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Javaness2 wrote:
https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/draw/98

It isn't very clear to me how the points are allocated.
Ukraine 1 win 1 draw = 5 points
Czechia 1 win 1 draw = 4 points
Russia 2 draws = 4 points

This feels like one of those Facebook meme where you have to work out that a bio banana is worth 2 extra, but the equals sign actually means cube root. Here the trick must be to do with the initial positions in the league.


Win is 2, draw is 1, lose is 0, Plus:
Quote:
-- Teams from top 4 start with 2 points, teams from 5-8 start with 1 point, last 4 start with zero points


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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #48 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:15 am 
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Javaness2 wrote:
https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/draw/98
The other thing to do note is the composition of the Italian team.


What strikes you about the composition?

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #49 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:16 am 
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Thanks Uberdude. I totally missed this rule, which is giving points for placings in the original. Now this additional tournament phase seems normal again.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #50 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 am 
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joachim wrote:
Javaness2 wrote:
https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/draw/98
The other thing to do note is the composition of the Italian team.


What strikes you about the composition?


That's an ugly subject. The reason for this phase of the competition is so that everyone can have confidence in the accuracy of the results which were played online. The reason why people need to have confidence ... well there is a thread on L19x19 for that. A long thread.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #51 Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:01 am 
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Javaness2 wrote:
Thanks Uberdude. I totally missed this rule, which is giving points for placings in the original. Now this additional tournament phase seems normal again.

I think Hungary would have a legitimate cause for complaint/annoyance at the relatively small effect of league A: they got 6 wins and 2 draws vs Romania's 1 win and 5 draws in league A, a big difference in performance, but this only translated to a 1 point seeding advantage (ie difference between 1 win and 1 draw) in the qualification league of 5 games where Hungary only differed by that amount with 2 wins 2 draws vs Romania's 3 wins 1 draw. It's a judgement of the organisers how strongly to bias the qualification league by main league results: doubling it to 4 points for places 1-2, 3 points for 3-4, 2 points for 5-6, 1 point for 7-8, 0 for 9-10 doesn't seem unreasonable to me. That way it would still be possible for a great performance by one lower team and a poor performance by a higher one in the qualification league to cause a different top 2 to go through, but would require rather starker difference than between Hungary and Romania here. Too little and what's the point of main league, too much and what's the point of qualification league, a difficult balancing act. Also Russia is not in a qualifying place at the moment (Poland's Leszek Soldan 4d (but used to be 6d) beat Dmitry Surin 6d)... is a bigger upset possible from 2nd league? Russia vs Czechia this afternoon will be crucial.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #52 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:23 am 
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Annoyance certainly, complaint only if they weren't properly notified or consulted.

France, Romania, Russia, and Ukraine are going to the finals in Brussels.
Italy and Serbia are in league B. Austria get promoted.

Think how many chocolate go sets could have been created with the budget for this special event.

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 Post subject: Re: PGETC 2018/9
Post #53 Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:52 am 
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Javaness2 wrote:

Think how many chocolate go sets could have been created with the budget for this special event.


Yeah, budget was 1k euro for every invited team plus (I guess) something for the two host venues.

I compared the original teams line up with those who played there, I think almost all the teams have been significantly shortened, that's a pity :evil: :evil:

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