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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #61 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:53 am 
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HermanHiddema @ Senseis Library wrote:
https://senseis.xmp.net/?topic=2300 HermanHiddema: Re: History of the EGCC (2010-06-03 17:28) [#7745]

As far as I know, the main reason Amsterdam was chosen was because they had a sustainable proposal that didn't require a constant stream of funds from the Nihon-Kiin to support it, but could mostly keep itself afloat by renting out the halls while being in a low rent district.



EGCC wrote:
The European Go Cultural Center, the EGCC, was founded in 1993 in Amstelveen with a gift from mr Iwamoto Kaoru and had as its purpose the spread of the game of go in Europe.


What about the other centers with donations from Iwamoto Kaoru.?


EGCC wrote:
His dream was realized in Sao Paulo, New York and Seattle as well as here in Amstelveen, a suburb of Amsterdam.


What is the success story of Seattle (USA) and São Paulo (Brazil)?

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #62 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:01 pm 
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I've mentioned above that the London Go Centre appears to be bucking the trend somewhat.

This is due to a combination of two things. One is that much of the funding is coming from the legacy of T Mark Hall, and there is no reason yet why this can't continue for a long time.

The other factor is that there is a team of skilled and energetic volunteers at the LGC. Volunteers can and do continue for very long periods, too, but to make sure the present lot do, you might consider giving them a little bit of support.

https://www.youtube.com/c/LondonGoCentre currently has 295 subscribers.

If they can get to 1,000 then they get privileges that make streaming events live easier. So there's something in it for you, too!

I might add that there are some events on the horizon that will be worth streaming, and I believe L19's very own uberdude is one of the streaming team, so quality is assured.


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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #63 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
The London Open last year moved out of its usual location (International Students House in central London) because of rising prices and moved to the new London Go Centre (which is in a bridge club further out). Entrants had to be turned away due to lack of space.



Hello, London Go Centre here, it is not true that people were turned away due to lack of space. As was well publicised in advance, we chose to limit the numbers in the first year of the transfer while we worked out how to run it.

This year (and registration is now open with Catalin Taranu as the pro), we can accept 100 entries. The London Open has only exceeded 100 entries once in the last few years.

For the first time in years the London Open runs at a profit. (As you could have read in the last issue of the BGJ) This enables us to subsidise "Not The London Open" in May as we try to build a second tournament of similar size.

This is a positive spiral.

You describe it as "further out" yes, it's 18 minutes by tube from Euston, similar from Oxford Circus, nearer to Heathrow, and relatively easy to get to from Gatwick via Clapham Junction. It's not that difficult to get to from Kings Cross or Liverpool St (that's north, south, east, west and overseas covered off for the benefit of non-locals)

We are doing other things such as building a YouTube channel containing the lectures presented at LGC events.


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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #64 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:49 am 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/c/LondonGoCentre currently has 295 subscribers.

+1 = 303 :D


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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #65 Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:25 pm 
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John Fairbairn wrote:
[…]

https://www.youtube.com/c/LondonGoCentre currently has 295 subscribers.

If they can get to 1,000 then they get privileges that make streaming events live easier. […]


I just shared this in a few places, let’s see …

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #66 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:03 am 
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Bonobo wrote:
John Fairbairn wrote:
[…]

https://www.youtube.com/c/LondonGoCentre currently has 295 subscribers.

If they can get to 1,000 then they get privileges that make streaming events live easier. […]


I just shared this in a few places, let’s see …


To subscribe it, you have to have an account there. So it's not possible for me.

But I like to express here that I watched 'Antti and Jeff on Lukas v Tanguy' with great pleasure, even laughing out loud sometimes. Thanks a lot for this.


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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #67 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:13 pm 
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joachim wrote:

To subscribe it, you have to have an account there. So it's not possible for me.

But I like to express here that I watched 'Antti and Jeff on Lukas v Tanguy' with great pleasure, even laughing out loud sometimes. Thanks a lot for this.


Thank you for the nice feedback, even if we'll only reach 999 subscribers :D

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #68 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:16 pm 
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London Go Centre wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
The London Open last year moved out of its usual location (International Students House in central London) because of rising prices and moved to the new London Go Centre (which is in a bridge club further out). Entrants had to be turned away due to lack of space.


Hello, London Go Centre here, it is not true that people were turned away due to lack of space. As was well publicised in advance, we chose to limit the numbers in the first year of the transfer while we worked out how to run it.

This year (and registration is now open with Catalin Taranu as the pro), we can accept 100 entries. The London Open has only exceeded 100 entries once in the last few years.


I'm attaching details of the number of entries for all time for the London Open. There are also partial figures for the Paris International.
The figures show that there is an appetite for tournaments with 100+ entries if they can be organised economically and if they are sufficiently attractive to a wide range of people. We need to take input from potential attendees to ensure that the event remains attractive because it is clear from the figures that tournaments can decline in popularity.


Attachments:
File comment: Attendance at the London Open 1974 to 2018
ParisAndLondon.pdf [80.82 KiB]
Downloaded 28 times
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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #69 Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:17 pm 
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Note that the attendance at the Paris tournament declined each time the tournament moved outside Paris (Antony, Neuilly) and increased each time the tournament moved back to a more central location (Lycée Louis-Le-Grand, ENS).


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Post #70 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:48 am 
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I suppose that the figures for Paris are also influenced by that year's tournament's status in the European Grand Prix. It used to be the Grand Final, but then Berlin elbowed it out.
Not sure what any of this has to do with the EGCC though!

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #71 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:54 am 
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richardamullens wrote:
I'm attaching details of the number of entries for all time for the London Open. There are also partial figures for the Paris International.


The Paris international saw a sudden growth of popularity in the early 2000's thanks to the Hikaru No Go boom, that drew a lot of new players in french clubs. If we compare the list of players of the 2000 and 2005 edition, most of the extra players in 2005 are double digit kyu.


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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #72 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Javaness2 wrote:
I suppose that the figures for Paris are also influenced by that year's tournament's status in the European Grand Prix. It used to be the Grand Final, but then Berlin elbowed it out.
Not sure what any of this has to do with the EGCC though!


I was surprised by the announcement of the closure because at the Amsterdam tournament just a few weeks ago the barman told me that they had introduced authentic Japanese food and, more and more, business people were coming to eat there as it was more competitively priced than options elsewhere. They were able to do this because the cooking was performed by Japanese women volunteers who had a stake in the the EGCC surviving so that they could run their Japanese flower arranging classes or other such enterprises.

It was disappointing this year that we were not able to build on last year's entry of 94 and only achieved 69. There were some notable absences because of illness and trips to Japan. The event was publicised on Sensei's library and at the Paris tournament. Fan Hui was there to give a talk, Rob van Zeijst provided commentaries while EuroGoTV was present to record the event and, I assume, stream the games on the top board. My post on Go-Info brought in 3 players from France it seems. There was a public transport strike on the Tuesday before the tournament which meant that there was no public transport that day in the Netherlands - my Eurostar train to Amsterdam terminated at Brussels and I had to get a Ouibus to Sloterdijk and then a taxi. That might have put off a few players.

The Amsterdam tournament is a quality event and, if you doubt that you can see one of the games at http://eidogo.com/?fbclid=IwAR0MOw2W5tpMaXM0mZ0xJrt0WeXnA7pu4rjlmps2Ydc0-sQMJjtxWaYDXXk#H7xbXaxN:0,0 so while there may be some difficulties I am hopeful that it will be back stronger than ever - I rely upon it to meet old friends each year.

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #73 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:13 am 
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Hi - National Go Center (NGC) here.

Sorry to hear about the EGCC closing. I had hoped to visit someday.

We have been open for two years now. Although a struggle to get folks away from their screens and come play face-to-face, it is very rewarding. The DC area Go scene has a fairly long history so there is a base to build on and a dedicated core of volunteers. We just heard today that we have been approved by the IRS as a 501(c)3 non-profit. :clap:

Our new website, https://nationalgocenter.org, went live recently where you can find out more about us.

Happy to answer any questions, and welcome anyone to come by if you are in the area.

-- gurujeet

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #74 Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:20 am 
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It is sad to hear that the EGCC is closing. I had many nice tournaments there.

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #75 Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:12 am 
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It's just an idea, I would like to know your opinion but, in regards of volunteers, maybe we should look to other sports, like Tennis, where volunteers are actually regarded with something... in that case to watch the games on court for free.

Besides, for promotion of Go, maybe it's time of a new anime or similar about Go, besides better promotion of the game. Being realistic and with all my respects, how many of you have ever watched a full game of baseball? For me it's absolutely boring. Too many hours and so slow... ans instead I'm sure most of us have ever seen one of the rounds of the NHK Go Cup, which is only 1 hour and half and it's commented by pros at the same time... I believe that professional sports needs to be a show, if our pros looked like movie stars, like superheros, and their games would be sold like the most amazing thing ever, maybe Go wouldn't be losing players while eSports is winning players like crazy.

Once again is just my opinion, maybe I am too optimistic of too much a dreamer. I'd love to read your answers.

Enjoy your day!

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Post #76 Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:30 pm 
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I know several people who have heard about go, but have never played because either they couldn't understand the rules, or could not count the score of their game.
I was in this position in the early 90's. The rules published in encyclopedias were utterly useless.

I see that the English Wikipedia has a correct presentation of the rules. Not the French one, unfortunately.

I see hope in smartphone applications that play go at a beginner level (like Crazy Stone), or sites like Crazy Sensei. But they are too little known (most people try GoDroid first, too strong for beginners).
And many national federations are dropping the japanese rule for the AGA rule, which is easier to understand for beginners.
Ideally, a basic rule should not use concepts such as life or death, that are too difficult to master for novice players.

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Post #77 Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:37 pm 
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If you type "jeu de go" on your favorite search engine, one of the first links is... http://jeudego.org/ which seems to be friendly for beginners.

That said, just explaining the rules correctly is far from enough to make people interested. I have seen many people drop by the club, play a few games, never to come back. Someone (beginner level) explained me the rules a long time ago, we had 2-3 games but I found the game uninteresting so I stopped playing for... 15 years.

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 Post subject: Re: European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors
Post #78 Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:16 pm 
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Pio2001 wrote:
I know several people who have heard about go, but have never played because either they couldn't understand the rules, or could not count the score of their game.

The European Go Cultural Centre is closing its doors not because of the rules of Go.

I promote Go now for 6 years. I see discussions about rules, hear students talking with beginners about differences between rulesets. I'm not sure, if it's a good idea.

For me Go is special because of it philosophy (the empty board) and the clear concepts - if we promote Go in the public we do it with high quality material. Parents may not understand the game, but they see the quality of the Game in the quality of the equipment. And if you think, that a Go board is expensive ... ever bought soccer equipment for children?

That brings me to "for free" - there is no need to give everything for free ...

We learned, that EGCC gave rooms for a very low price to the Go players .. in the long run it was a bad idea. Next year we as Europeans do not have the EGCC as an accumulation point anymore.

If we talk about something like the EGCC - we should focus more on keeping the players active players. When we restarted the Go activies 6 years ago in the city of Karlsruhe, we started with one player and one organizer (me :D ). We looked for new players at the university and in social media - but we also looked for the inactive players ... we found two of the players from 1970! Both left the city ... but we found others and that's inspiring for both sides.

I hope that someday we will get a second chance for an European Go Center, and we will remember to have a good business plan. Yes I know, many Go players do not like the term "business" - but if there is no cash, there is no EGCC.

Greetings from Germany


Wilhelm

( your milage may vary :D )

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